Re: genitive

From: Glen Riddle (
Date: Mon Feb 09 1998 - 14:45:24 EST

Paul S. Dixon wrote:

> On Mon, 09 Feb 1998 11:15:42 -0700 Glen Riddle <> writes:
> >Yes! I did mean I Tim. Carl Conrad caught that in 12 minutes! Paul
> >wasn't far behind. Don't read what I wrote; read what I meant or would
> have >meant if I'd been thinking what I meant to mean.
> Actually, I did mine independently of Carl. So, we have two readings
> from different text camps (to continue the textual criticism analogy).
> That should give it even more clout. Sure is nice still having the
> author around. :)
> >
> >Subjective: problem with that is that Paul is exhorting Tim to be a
> >role model for the believers. If subjective the believers out there
> would
> >be doing the modeling. I've always been more open to possessive than
> most
> >grammars, so
> >I think I'll buy Carl's view in a New York minute.
> >blessings,
> >gpr
> Hey, I never have a problem deferring to Carl. Before I bow, however,
> you said,
> "if subjective the believers out there would be doing the modeling." No,
> if subjective, then the type or example of Timothy would be the object
> which the believers, the subject, would be imitating.
> Paul Dixon
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  I must say I'm at a loss to know how to deal with my original message now:
I wrote Eph. 4.12, all the while thinking of I Tim. 4.12. But, as Paul so
astutely pointed out, Eph. 4.12 now becomes the more difficult reading--with
all the canons of textual criticism pointed at my head, I must give in.
Unless, there are a few out there who would allow, at least in this instance,
some weight to authorial intent. In which case, we may all turn our attention
to I Tim. 4.12.
Now, with a definite text before us, I would like to pursue Paul's comment on
my comment on his comment on the subjective genitive. If we have a subjective
gen.: "the testimony of them," the force is fairly equal to "they
testified." Now, in the case of "type of the believers" in I Tim 4.12 we
would have "believers imitate" by the way I read Paul's note. I just don't
see how we can get the verbal idea "to imitate" our of typos. I'm still open
to ideas on this, but I sure do like Carl's perspecive: "an example belonging
to the faithful".

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