From: Steven Cox (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Tue Feb 24 1998 - 09:36:03 EST
Although it seems the choice between ELEGXAI PASAN YUCHN
and ELEGXAI PANTAS TOUS [ASEBEIS] is primarily a textual
issue, I would think that the first would better reflect
1Enoch, as the book teaches an intercessor role for angels:
Enoch 9:3 And now to you, the holy ones of heaven, the souls of men make
their suit, saying, "Bring our cause before the Most High"
"Holy ones" in 1Enoch (as distinct from Deut33:2 SUN MURIASI
KADHS <transliterated from Hebrew K-D-SH>) means angels not
men. In this way Jude picks on a passage which shows angels
condemning men, which is the very antithesis of those men,
DOXAS DE BLASFHMOUSIN, (v8) or OUTOI DE OSA MEN OUK OIDASIN
BLASFHMOUSIN (v10). Considering that most of 1Enoch concerns
the misdeeds of angels the following is one of the very few
passages Jude could have chosen to make his point:
9 And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones
To execute judgement upon all, And to destroy all the ungodly:
And to convict all flesh of all the works of their ungodliness which they
have ungodly committed, And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners
have spoken against Him.
"All Flesh" may well be an Aramaic or Coptic gloss of
a different text used by Jude [the translation above is
RH Charles', made before the discovery at Qumran of Enoch
in Greek, which is due for TLG 'E' no less].
PS Tagalog PV readers are familiar with ELEGXAI PANTAS TOUS
("at parusahan ang lahat") how close is this to Ibanag?
And how have you rendered TOUTOIS in 14? ("concerning"
as Tagalog PV: "tungkol din sa kanila"??)
At 12:15 98/02/23 -0500, David L. Moore wrote:
>Paul Zellmer <email@example.com> wrote:
>>In the quote of Enoch 1, I find both N-A and UBS texts using the phrase
>>ELEGXAI PASAN YUCHN PERI PANTWN TWN ERGWN ASEBEIAS AUTWN. Again, I
>>find no variant listed. Yet commentaries seem to indicate that,
>>instead of YUCHN, there is actually a form of ASEBEIS, and, instead of
>>ELEGXAI, the word was EXELEGXAI. KJV and other major versions follow
>>this reading. The alternate form of the verb does not seem to cause
>>major translation problems, but what support is there for this
>>conviction only of all the ungodly as opposed "all souls"?
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