Re: AUQENTEIN, 1Tim2.12

From: Jim West (
Date: Fri May 15 1998 - 23:18:39 EDT

At 10:04 PM 5/15/98 -0400, you wrote:

>Ok, I'll bite, since nobody else seems to have the courage, or is it the
>better part of wisdom?

tis not a matter of cowardice, or wisdom, but mere absence from the dear
computer all day!!!! What a nice break :)

>Since this is a hapax leg. in the NT, and since M-M seems to think
>the use here "comes quite naturally out of the word 'master, autocrat,'"
>and since this seems to comport well with the context of I Tim 2, then
>my guess is the word in I Tim 2 must be interpreted in line with:
>1) her learning in silence with all subjection (v. 11), 2) her being
>forbidden by Paul to teach men (v. 12), and 3) the reasons given by
>Paul which pertain to the order of creation (which implies the same
>kind of authority as found in the God-head, the authority of God the
>Father in relation to the God the Son in whose image man (male and
>female) was created) and to the order of the fall.

It has nothing to do with "authority" in a positive sense, but with
"domineering authority". That is, the women folk are here forbidden to
"dominate" their hubbies. That Paul did, in fact, allow women to teach,
preach, and pray in the assemblies is clear from 1 Cor 11. (Thus, he either
changed his mind, or this letter is not from Paul, or the word must have a
negative connotation here).

Further, I must say that this patriarchal mentality is no longer culturally
acceptable; and that it, like all cultural "husks" from the first century,
are disposable as the have nothing to do with the "kernal" of the gospel.
(A good Bultmannian I ever remain). :)

(p.s.- this isnt really theology- but I shall refrain from further comments
lest I cross the line- even though I really want to... in defense of all
the dear ladies who have nearly single-handedly kept the Church alive while
their lazy husbands slept in every Sunday only to go to the lake at 11!!!!!!)

>Whew, my wife just called for dinner. Not that she's my boss or
>anything, just that I'm starved.


>Here come the worms.

Well, I take that kind of personally.... You should have mercy, cause I
have a cold. :(

>Paul Dixon

(well, I guess I do feel kind of wormy)
(p.p.s.- those interested should read "When Women Were Priests" by Torjesen).

Jim West, ThD
Quartz Hill School of Theology

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