Re: PROSWPON as Person - 2 Cor 1:11 and Heb 9:24

From: Paul R. Zellmer (zellmer@cag.pworld.net.ph)
Date: Fri Jul 24 1998 - 18:34:29 EDT


Williams, Wes wrote:
>
> > > Would anyone rightly object to a translation of "people" or "persons"
> > for
> > > PROSWPWN (faces) at 2 Cor 1:11 and PROSWPWi ("person") at Heb 9:24?
> > >

I responded:

> > Wes, a whole lot depends on the translation paradigm being used. If you
> > are aiming at the dynamic equivalents, you MIGHT get by with this.
> > However, for a more literal translation, I think you're leaving out some
> > important secondary concepts.
> >

<snip>

(Re: Heb 9:24)

> > In a more literal translation, I think that you are adding too much
> > baggage if you use person of God. "Person of God" as opposed to what?
> > a representative of God? the essense of God? "Person of God" in
> > English idiom appears to be focussing on a characteristic of God in your
> > translation rather than the location of the presentation. That does not
> > seem to go along with the sense of the verse, which does focus on the
> > location.
> >
> "Person of God" as opposed to a symbolic representation of God.
>
> Actually Paul, I agree with you that "presence" is an attribute of PROSWPON
> in this verse. However, I do not believe the author is stressing that here
> ith PROSWPON. He has already stressed that with AUTON TON OURANON. I believe
> the author is indeed stressing God *himself* with the use of PROSWPON.

<snip>

> To be sure, your objections surface questions in the use of "person" with
> God as distinct from its use with man. If some are uncomfortable with
> "person" here for theological reasons, how does one translate the nuance of
> the author's emphasis? Perhaps "now to appear before God himself"?

Considering your interpretation of the phrase, which we are treating as
a Hebrew idiom, this is exactly how I would translate it. However, the
Greek would have a more direct way of saying that. I guess that's why I
hold to slightly different baggage, a slightly different nuance, that is
being brought out by the phrase, both here and in the Acts 3:13 passage
to which you make reference later. By the way, I have a similar view to
the nuance of the equivalent phrase in the Tanakh.

We're coming close to getting out of the focus area of this list. I'm
not sure that we will benefit from further discussion on this, as I
think we understand the other's position. But if you want to
investigate it further, why don't we take it off-list?

Peace,

Paul

-- 
Paul and Dee Zellmer, Jimmy Guingab, Geoffrey Beltran
Ibanag Translation Project
Cabagan, Philippines

zellmer@faith.edu.ph

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