From: Charles Peebles (
Date: Sun Nov 08 1998 - 17:15:02 EST

To my fellow B-Greek members who are interested in the recent thread on
PRWTOTOKOS in Col 1:15: I will make a statement or two that may seem too
bold considering my lack of credentials. Please correct me if my reasoning
is not sound. First of all, which type of genitive KTISEWS is doesn't
concern me very much but I'll comment briefly. It is probably a partitive
genitive. If the phrase were removed from context (more on context later)
it might be mistaken for a subjective genitive, giving the meaning that all
creation gave birth to Him. This interpretation would be allowed by the
Greek words PRWTOTOKOS PASHS KTISEWS. Much more important is the meaning of
PRWTOTOKOS in this passage. PRWTOTOKOS here DOES NOT have its most common,
normal, literal meaning. The only context in which PRWTOTOKOS, applied to
Jesus, could have a literal meaning would be a discussion of Joseph, Mary
and events occuring roughly two thousand years ago. If PRWTOTOKOS here does
refer to Mary's firstborn, then PASHS KTISEWS is nonsensical. Therefore,
since PRWTOTOKOS in Col 1:15 CANNOT have its most common, literal meaning,
it must have some figurative meaning. This rules out the necessity for any
temporal or chronological implications. As for the divinity and eternal
existance of Jesus, the scriptures are absolutely clear. John 1 leaps to
mind immediately as one of myriad examples. if QEOS HN hO LOGOS, then
Jesus' existence, past and future, is identical to that of God's, because
he is God. To say otherwise is to.....(aposiopesis). Finally (I hear sighs
of relief), concerning context, a wise old hermeneutics professor once
taught me this axiom: Any conclusion one reaches from reading the
scriptures must agree with the scriptures as a whole.
Chuck Peebles (with help from Mom, the world's preeminent lay theologian)

B-Greek home page:
You are currently subscribed to b-greek as: []
To unsubscribe, forward this message to
To subscribe, send a message to

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Sat Apr 20 2002 - 15:40:07 EDT