Date: Fri Nov 13 1998 - 15:01:22 EST

In a message dated 11/13/98 8:14:12 AM Pacific Standard Time, writes:

 Of course. But the point I was making is that institutions and authorities
 (in this case, human ones) are called KTISIS in 1 Pet 2:13, just as
 "thrones or dominions or powers or authorities" are called KTISIS in
 Colossians 1:15.>>

Yes, I know. But the Petrine passage refers directly and exclusively to those
human creations in positions of authority, to whom we should "subject"
ourselves. In Colossians 1:15 the "throne, powers, authorities" etc. are
included in the KTISIS, but they do exhaust the reference in this text.

<< Incidentally, when I think of "creation" in English, I think of the visible
 created universe. This does not appear to be the meaning either in 1 Peter
 nor in the Colossians passage, which uses KTISIS to refer to "things
 visible and invisible, in heaven and on earth". >>

The passage in 1 Peter is using KTISIS in direct reference to political
figures. Regarding Paul's extended reference in Col. 1:15, many of the things
that you and I now consider "visible" were "invisible" in the first century.
While I personally believe TA PANTA includes not only the physical creations
that were made through the LOGOS, but also invisible spirit beings, I cannot
be certain, particularly in view of the passage in Peter. It may be that, like
John, Paul makes his point in reference to those things that were made in the
physical heavens and the earth, described in Genesis 1:1, not all of which
were "visible" back in those days.

Either way, it seems clear enough that KTISIS in Col. 1:15 includes more than
the political figures denoted in 1 Peter 2:13.

Greg Stafford

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