Re: transgressions

From: Michael Holmes (holmic@bethel.edu)
Date: Wed Feb 17 1999 - 12:37:13 EST


One of Mary Pendergraft's observations in her last response to Carl suggests
an answer to a question nagging me from the start: why the aorist participle
POIHSANTAS?

Mary wrote:
>The infinitive with EI MH then answers TI POIHSANTAS: "having done what,
if not having lived in a holy and >righteous way..."

The following context runs:
"... except to live in a holy and righteous way, and to regard these worldly
things as alien to us, and not desire them? (7) For when we desire to
acquire these things, we fall away from--APOPIPTOMEN--the way of righteousness."

If, in light of Mary's suggestion, one construes the aorist POIHASANTAS in
conjunction with the present APOPIPTOMEN, then we might translate:

"Therefore, what have we done to obtain them, if not to live in a holy and
righteous manner ..."

In short, the author is looking back to what has been done, POIHSANTAS (not,
as my initial suggestion indicated, what we must do), and is warning his
readers against "falling away" from an action they have already taken.

Mike Holmes

>X-Sender: pender@pop.wfu.edu
>Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:35:31 -0500
>X-PH: V4.4@homer
>To: Biblical Greek <b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
>From: Mary L B Pendergraft <pender@f1n7.sp2net.wfu.edu>
>Subject: Re: transgressions
>Cc: Biblical Greek <b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
>References: <
<LYR329-13482-1999.02.17-10.56.44--cwconrad#artsci.wustl.edu@franklin.oit.
unc.edu>
> <LYR12310-13481-1999.02.17-10.48.18--pender#wfu.edu@frankli n.oit.unc.edu>
>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:leave-b-greek-329W@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
>Reply-To: Mary L B Pendergraft <pender@f1n7.sp2net.wfu.edu>
>
>At 10:11 AM 2/17/99 -0600, Carl W. Conrad wrote:
>>At 10:56 AM -0500 2/17/99, Mary L B Pendergraft wrote:
>>>At 10:48 AM 2/17/99 -0500, Randy LEEDY wrote:
>>>>Bart Ehrman inquired:
>>>>
>>>>>Does anyone want to explain to me how s/he understands the grammar of
>>>>2
>>>>>Clement 2:6: ti oun estin poiesantas epituchein auton, ei me to
>>>>hosios
>>>>>kai dikaios anastrephesthai?
>>>>
>>>>I finally found the passage at V.6 (Lightfoot's edition), and using W
>>>>for omega and H for eta, the passage reads TI OUN ESTIN POIHSANTAS
>>>>EPITUCEIN AUTWN, EI MH TO HOSIWS KAI DIKAIWS ANASTREFESQAI.
>>>>
>>>>I understand the grammar as follows:
>>>>
>>>>TI - object of POIHSANTAS
>>>>ESTIN - existential use (no complement: "it exists")
>>>
>>>What about ESTIN = "it is possible"?
>>
>>I think ESTIN certainly could be read that way, but what makes me question
>>it is that structure of the whole clause seems to involve the disjunction
>>of TI ... EI MH, which is what makes me think of it as "What is X
>>other-than/but Y?" IF that's what we have here, I would think the ESTIN
>>must be a copula.
>
>Hmm....I tend to think that TI is the object of POIHSANTAS, and the
>participial phrase is then the accusative subject of the infinitive:
>"It is possible for those who have done what to obtain them..." The Greek
>is, of course, much less awkward than this English attempt.
>The infinitive with EI MH then answers TI POIHSANTAS: "having done what,
>if not having lived in a holy and righteous way..." I believe (or
>certainly hope) that it is possible (admittedly not common) for the tense
>of an articular infinitive to represent time.
>
>Mary
>
>
>Mary Pendergraft
>Associate Professor of Classical Languages
>Wake Forest University
>Winston-Salem NC 27109-7343
>336-758-5331 (NOTE: this is a new number) pender@wfu.edu
>
>---
>B-Greek home page: http://sunsite.unc.edu/bgreek
>You are currently subscribed to b-greek as: holmic@bethel.edu
>To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-b-greek-329W@franklin.oit.unc.edu
>To subscribe, send a message to subscribe-b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu
>
>
>
>

---
B-Greek home page: http://sunsite.unc.edu/bgreek
You are currently subscribed to b-greek as: [cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu]
To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-b-greek-329W@franklin.oit.unc.edu
To subscribe, send a message to subscribe-b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu


This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Sat Apr 20 2002 - 15:40:16 EDT