From: Moon-Ryul Jung (email@example.com)
Date: Sat Apr 24 1999 - 20:54:17 EDT
On 04/24/99, ""Carl W. Conrad" <firstname.lastname@example.org>" wrote:
> At 5:54 AM -0500 4/24/99, Moon-Ryul Jung wrote:
> >Dear B-Greekers,
> >I have some elementary questions on the usage of participles. Some of the
> >seem closely related and others are not.
> >1. Attributive adjectivals without the article.
> >The attribute position of adjectives is known to require the article in
> >front of them, e.g. in
> >hO KALOS AGGELOS or hO AGGELOS hO KALOS. But there are some cases where
> >this rule
> >is violated. E.g.:
> >Rom 8:24: ELPIS DE BLEPOMENH OUK ESTIN ELPIS. "hope that is seen"
> >Mk 5:36: hO DE IHSOUS PARAKOUSAS TON LOGON LALOUMENON LEGEI...
> > "the word that is spoken"
> The rule you've cited is meant to characterize and DISTINGUISH the function
> of qualifying words or phrases when the qualifying words or phrases must be
> understood as attributive FROM instances where the function of such words
> or phrases must be understood as PREDICATIVE. The participle in these two
> verses is NOT attributive but PREDICATIVE, meaning that it has to be
> understood adverbially with the predicate of the sentence; in English these
> seem often to work best--or be most clearly grasped--when translated as
> adverbial clauses:
> ELPIS DE BLEPOMENH OUK ESTIN ELPIS: "Hope is NOT hope IF (WHEN) it
> is seen." PARAKOUSAS TON LOGON LALOUMENON: " ... upon overhearing the word
> WHILE (WHEN) it was being spoken ..."
Carl, clear! But if you are right, then the textbook "New Testament Greek:
A Beginning and Intermediate Grammar. James Allen Hewett, BA, BD, MA,
is wrong. He said in p. 149 that those two verses are clear examples of
attributive participles WITHOUT the article. Another example he mentions
Lk 6:48: hOMOIOS ESTIN ANQRWPWi OIKODOMOUNTI OIKIAN, hOS....
He is like a man building a house, who....
Translating it as "he is like a man when building a house, who..." seems
akward. Moreover, if the rule of " the article + attributive phrases"
can be broken at times, aren't these examples also such cases?
> >3. Complementary participles after ARCOMAI (begin)?
> >On recent posts on Lk 7:45 there were discussions on "complementary
> > used after verbs of ceasing: DIELIPEN KATAFILUOUSA (stop kissing]. I
> >wonder if
> > complementary participles can be used after verbs of beginning.
> > This question was raised by the way most translations take Mk 2:23b.
> >2:23a KAI EGENETO AUTON EN TOIS SABBASIN PARAPOREUESQAI DIA TWN SPORIMWN
> >2:23b: KAI hOI MAQHTAI AUTOU HRXANTO hODON POIEIN TILLONTES TOUS STACUAS.
> >Most translations took 2:23n to mean "and his disciples began, as they
> >to pluck the ears."
> >My initial attempt was "his disciples began to make their way plucking the
> >The "official translations" take the infinitive clause hODON POIEIN as a
> >temporal clause,
> >even though there is no preposition in front of it, e.g. EN TWi. I wonder
> >if this translation
> >is grammatically possible.
> I haven't even looked at the translations, "official" or other, but my
> immediate reaction is to think that YOUR instinct is right here, that here
> hODON POIEIN is a complementary infinitive TO HRXANTO, while TILLONTES must
> be understood in this instance not as a complementary but
as a predicative,
> i.e. adverbial participle: "They began to tread a path (through the
> grainfield) as they were stripping the ears of grain."
But this translation seems akward in meaning. It implies that the
of treading a path happened DURING their stripping the ears of grain.
Also, participles describe circumstantial situations or something like
In this case, the event of stripping the ears was the main event, and
treading a path circumstantial....
Dept of Computer Science
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