Re: difficult text

From: Carl W. Conrad (
Date: Tue Oct 05 1999 - 08:20:50 EDT

<x-rich>At 6:17 PM -0700 10/4/99, Steve Puluka wrote:

>>At 11:24 PM -0600 10/4/99, Felipe Flores-Morelos wrote:

>> >I'm trying to translate the Divine Liturgy of Saint John

> > > Chrysostom, and I find a difficult text, maybe someone whishes

>> > to help me a little: The text is TA SA EK TWN SWN SOI


>> >sa ek twn swn soi prosferomen kata panta kai dia panta) , Thanks.


>>I think this is "What is yours (TA SA) from what is yours (EK TWN
SWN) we

>>offer to you (SOI PROSFEROMEN) on every occasion (KATA PANTA) and

>>every reason (DIA PANTA)."


>>Carl W. Conrad


>>There may be other accounts of the phrases KATA PANTA and DIA PANTA.

>>Another way to express the idea, as I understand it,

>>and in English that better fits normal English usage is: "Whatever we

>>you, whatever the occasion and whatever the reason that we offer it,

>>belongs to you and comes from you."


>The official English translation for the Byzantine Ruthenian

>reads "We off to You Yours of Your own, in behalf of all and for all."

>However, this comes to English through the Old Slavonic, which reads

>ot Tvojich Teb'i prinosim, o vs'ich i za vsja."


>I'm curious as to how close the English matches the Greek after the

>through the Old Slavonic. This English is a very good rendering of
the Old

>Slavonic. My Greek is not this good yet.


>This moment of the Liturgy is during the Anaphora where the bread and

>are being consecrated. The priest is elevating the square piece of

>called the lamb, representing Christ and offering this as a sacrifice

>God. Hence, the sense of offering to God that which is already God's,

>own son. This offering is made on behalf of all the people and for

>people's salvation.


>See "The Divine Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom" By Basil Shereghy

>"Introduction to Liturgical Theology by Alexander Schmemann for more


Here are a couple more versions of the line:

<color><param>0000,7777,0000</param>"Thine own of Thine own, we offer
You, in behalf of all, and for all."


"Thine own of thine own we offer to Thee, in all and for all."

(translation of the Most Reverend Archbishop Germanos, Archbishop of
Thyateira,in _The Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom_ ed. & arr. by
Rev. George Mastrantonis, St. Louis, 1966.

What I find rather fascinating here is the diversity of renderings of
the rather vague prepositional phrases KATA PANTA and DIA PANTA.


Carl W. Conrad

Department of Classics/Washington University

One Brookings Drive/St. Louis, MO, USA 63130/(314) 935-4018

Home: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649


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