Re: Tit 1:1-2

From: Brian Swedburg (
Date: Tue Jan 25 2000 - 13:25:25 EST

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<p><i>"Carl W. Conrad" wrote:</i>
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><i></i>&nbsp;
<br><i>Well, you have to admit asking what we think! And you may well find
that we don't all think the same way or with the same results.</i></blockquote>

<p><br>Your knowledgable response is always gracious, so, I am glad for
the critical exchange!
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><i>For my part, I have always preferred, where it
is possible, to understand KATA with the accusative in the sense of "in
accordance with" or "following the course of" (like Latin SECUNDUM, which
was a preposition deriving from a participial form of SEQUOR, "follow";
I don't mean to suggest that the meaning of Koine KATA with acc. derives
from Latin usage, but I think that in the Latin Bible KATA + acc. most
regularly is translated by Latin SECUNDUM + acc.). And I think that would
work in this passage also:</i>
<br><i>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "in keeping with/in accordance with God's
saints' faith and knowledge of the truth (that is) in keeping with reverence
This is one of the reasons I love this list!&nbsp; Though BAGD itself proposes
the function of KATA being purpose, and it fits nicely with my view of
the letter, I was skeptical of my own translation from the start.
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I also like the woodeness of some literal translations,
yet I still don't think I full grasp the intent of the author in using
KATA in the sense of "in accordance with". Trying to grasp the visual image
of the preposition, "partnering with" (ie. standing beside) is about as
close as I can get.&nbsp; Perhaps part of my problem is that I am not sure
how Paul's apostleship must accord with the faith, though I can grasp it's
partnership to or functioning for the purpose of, as I have already suggested.(Obviously
I have tipped my hat on my identity of the author...)
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Can you help me grasp this "in accordance with"
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><i>Secondly, although EPI with the dative is capable
of quite a number of different nuances in practice, I like to start out
with EPI as "upon" and a locative type of dative (e.g. EPI THi CWRAi =
"on the spot") and then work outwards toward metaphorical extensions of
the locative dative notion; one of the more common metaphorical extensions
is that wherein the dative noun is a "basis" upon which the proposition
or action to which the EPI phrase refers is to be understood. So here:
"on the basis of hope of eternal life."</i><i></i>
<p><i>That yields:</i><i></i>
<p><i>&nbsp; "Paul, a servant of God and apostle of Jesus Christ in keeping
with/following (the) faith of the chosen of God and in keeping with/following
(the) knowledge of truth--knowledge, that is, which is in keeping with
reverence based on (the) hope of eternal life ... "</i><i></i>
<p>Actually, though I spoke of EPI as causal, I think I meant "on the basis
of".&nbsp; So thanks for the clarification here.</blockquote>
My wrestling with KATA continues as I consider how "The knowledge of the
truth/ or true knowledge" accords with EUSEBEIAN, instead of the other
way around.
<p>Once again, what do you think?
<br>Western Sem Student
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;


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