From: Carl W. Conrad (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Tue Feb 22 2000 - 19:58:16 EST
I am pretty much in agreement with George (i.e. with "Polycarp" on the way
TELEIOS/TELEION are being used in 1 Corinthians 13--that the fundamental
conception involved in vss. 9-10 is "mature" (or I might even say "ripe")
and that I rather think the point in time or development referred to in vs.
10 is the ESCATON or PAROUSIA, which Paul often enough seems to refer to in
terms of a full-grown harvest (as did Jesus, for that matter). Certainly
the immediate context in 1 Cor 13 points to the antithesis of childhood and
adulthood, and I think one ought to see one other polarity in EK MEROUS and
TELEION: "partial" and "complete". Of course there is little danger (or
hope) that the end-result of this discussion will be a full-blown (TELEION)
consensus on the meaning of TELEIOS/ON.
At 6:23 PM -0500 2/22/00, Polycarp66@aol.com wrote:
>This is a line inserted to avoid the problem of posts not being sent when the
>first line is the same. Sorry about inadvertently sending a reply that
>hadn't even been started. I got "click-happy" when the system was slow.
>In a message dated 2/22/2000 4:38:49 PM Central Daylight Time,
><< "But whenever should come the 'perfect,' the 'from part' is destroyed."
> I have heard several explanations for this (from the completion of the
> canon to the Second Coming), but I think there may be something more in the
> word TELEIOS than we acknowledge here.
>The powers that be in this group ordain that we eschew the discussion of
>theology and limit our discussion to the Greek -- generally, and here in
>particular, I concur. Having said that there is something which can be said
>concerning the use of TELEI* in this letter.
>2.6 SOFIAN DE LALOUMEN EN TOIS TELEIOS
> We speak wisdom among the mature
>14.1 ADELFOI, MH PAIDIA GINESQE TAIS FRESIN ALLA THi KAKIAi NHPIAZETE, TAIS
>DE FRESIN TELEIOI GINESQE.
> Brothers, don't be children in understanding. Instead be infants in
>evil but be mature in understanding.
>In these the idea is that of maturity. This is slightly different in the
>passage under consideration -- but not much. I think he builds on this
>concept. He contrasts the "complete" with
>PROFHTEIAI -- KATARGHQHSONTAI
>GLWSSAI -- PAUSONTAI
>GNWSIS -- KATARGHQHSETAI
>My guess would be that this was in opposition to some Gnostic tendencies
>being exhibited. When was this to occur? I would say that it would be at
>the expected parousia.
>1.7 WSTE hUMAS MH hUSTEREISQAI EN MHDENI CARISMATI APEKDECOMENOUS THN
>APOKALUYIN TOU KURIOU hHMWN IHSOU CRISTOU
>. . . so that you might not be lacking in any gift as we await the revelation
>of out Lord Jesus Christ.
>Much of the early church seemed to expect to still be alive when the parousia
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics/Washington University
One Brookings Drive/St. Louis, MO, USA 63130/(314) 935-4018
Home: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649
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