From: Jason Hare (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Thu Feb 24 2000 - 16:49:34 EST
First, in Sirach, the idea is not the dwelling in a person, but a group of
people. There is a difference between saying that SOFIA would dwell among
(for indeed this a better translation than "in") Jacob and saying that the
LOGOS *became* (EGENETO) flesh (SARX). They are completely different and
must be examined on those premises. John wrote: "the LOGOS became flesh
and tabernacled among us and we saw his glory, the glory of the *one and
only* (MONOGENHS) full of grace and truth."
Indeed, the LOGOS became flesh and the Apostles beheld his DOXA and
proclaimed him. This is what John is relating, not the dwelling of widsom
among the people of Israel, although the idea is also mentioned that he
(LOGOS) "tabernacled among us." There may be a tie over in that, but not
in the idea that << hO LOGOS SARX EGENETO. >>
Ozark Christian College
On 02/24/00, "Steven Craig Miller <email@example.com>" wrote:
> To: Jason Hare,
> << That is, "And the LOGOS became flesh and 'tabernacled' among us, and we
> beheld his/its glory, the glory as of the/an unique-one from the Father,
> full of grace and truth." This goes beyond speculation. John wrote that the
> LOGOS in flesh is Jesus. (Again, sorry for the theology, but this is what
> the text calls for.) He goes on to say that John (the Baptist) testified
> about him (v. 15) and that, while law came through Moses, that same grace
> and truth "we" beheld came through Jesus Christ (v. 17). Again, context is
> proven to be king and speculation can stop. ***LOGOS in flesh (in John's
> estimation) equals Jesus.*** >>
> Obviously verse 14 refers to Jesus, but IMO traditional interpretations of
> this verse completely misunderstand what John has written. A good parallel
> can be found at Sirach 24:8.
> << "Then the Creator of all things gave me a command,
> and my Creator chose the place for my tent [SKHNHN].
> He said, 'Make your dwelling [KATASKHNWSON] in Jacob,
> and in Israel receive your inheritance'" >>
> (Sirach 24:8 NRSV [bracketed Greek words added]).
> Just as "wisdom" could have been thought to have "dwelt" in Jacob, so also
> could the LOGOS be thought to have "dwelt" in Jesus. The rest of John's
> gospel makes clear that this author did not think of Jesus as God's LOGOS.
> If context is "king" (as you say), then it surely would be wrong to twist
> this one verse while ignoring all the others which I've cited. Since these
> other passages are perfectly clear, and it is obvious that this author did
> not think that Jesus was God's LOGOS, then our task should be to try to
> understand this one verse in light of the rest of John's gospel.
> Although SOFIA was personified, it would be fallacious to assume that SOFIA
> was a "person," so that the "person" SOFIA was merely the person Jacob.
> Likewise, it would be fallacious to assume that merely because the
> Johannine gospel seems to personify God's LOGOS in the prologue, that this
> necessarily means that God's LOGOS was a "person" which also went by the
> name "Jesus." From a grammatical point of view, there is no justification
> for assuming that the author of the Johannine gospel ever thought that
> Jesus was God's LOGOS, and yet there are a number of passages in his gospel
> which makes it absolutely clear that Jesus was not God's LOGOS.
> << Again, context is proven to be king and speculation can stop. >>
> I completely concur with that sentiment! But for me the "context" does not
> end with John's prologue, but IMO the whole Johannine gospel must be seen
> to be part of the context as well!
> -Steven Craig Miller
> Alton, Illinois (USA)
> FWIW: I'm neither a clergy-person, nor an academic (and I have no post-grad
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