From: Carl W. Conrad (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Fri Mar 03 2000 - 11:16:35 EST
At 9:14 AM -0800 3/3/00, email@example.com wrote:
>On Fri, 03 Mar 2000 23:21:19 +1100 Ward Powers <firstname.lastname@example.org>
>> So here is the issue: On what basis (if any) can we conclude that
>> John uses PISTEUW in a context such as John 8;30-31 to mean
>> some kind of "believing" other than what he means in John 3:15
>> -18 (et al.)? That is, to mean a "believing" which is not
>> "spirit-generated" but which can be used in reference to people
>> described as children of the devil (8:42-44) and who do not belong
>> to God (8:47). Are there any other passages where John clearly
>> uses PISTEUW in such a way?
>> I tend to think that when John uses PISTEUW it is in reference to
>> saving faith. Do I need to modify this understanding of his use of
>> this word?
>How about on the basis of the usage of PISTEUW in Jn 2:23-25
>where POLLOI EPISTEUSAN EIS TO ONOMA AUTOU, but
>where also AUTOS DE IHSOUS OUK EPISTEUEN AUTON
>AUTOIS, because (hOTI ... GAR) AUTOS ... GINWSKEN
>TI HN EN TWi ANQRWPWi.
This will hardly do: it's a different usage of PISTEUW with a reflexive
accusative and dative: "would not ENTRUST himself to them. On the other
hand, it does point to a situation where there is at least a nominal coming
to faith on the part of individuals whom Jesus himself knows he cannot
trust, and to that extent it seems parallel to the situation in chapter 8
of John. At any rate, however, the meaning of PISTEUW in the one verse is
not the same as that in the other.
Carl W. Conrad Department of Classics/Washington University One Brookings Drive/St. Louis, MO, USA 63130/(314) 935-4018 Home: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649 email@example.com
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