From: Carlton Winbery (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Mon Mar 20 2000 - 22:23:23 EST
Bob Stevens wrote;
>I am way over my head here; a lay lurker who hasn't been in a Greek class
>for more than 20 years.
>That said, I'm going to take the liberty of introducing a slight change of
>direction here. Given all of the extremely informative insights in this
>thread, how do we fit a couple verses into the mix?
>John 5:20 hO GAR PATHR FILEI TON hUION ...
>John 16:27 AUTOS GAR hO PATHR FILEI hUMAS ...
>If I have butchered the transliteration, please overlook that and just move
>to the meat of the question. I guess I'm asking how this fits into Jim
>West's heirarchy, as well as the discussion Carl Conrad passed along from
>Louw & Nida.
Bob I have read the later replies to your post of these two verses and I
disagree with them. I think that you have placed your finger on the
achilles heel of any interpretation that tries to maintain an essential
difference in the uses of AGAPAW and FILEW in John's gospel. In fact no
matter how hard I strain at it I cannot find any differences between these
words any where in the NT.
Mt. 10:37 hO FILWN PATERA H MHTERA hUPER EME OUK ESTIN MOU AXIOS
"He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me."
The verses in John that you have called attention to.
1 Cor. 16:22 EI TIS OU FILEI TON KURION, HTW ANAQEMA.
"If anyone does not love the Lord, let him be anathema."
Rev. 3:19 EGW hOSOUS EAN FILW ELEGCW KAI PAIDEUW
"Whomever I love, I reprove and discipline."
When daddy exercised this one, there was plenty of action involved.
Titus 3:15 ASPASAI TOUS FILOUNTAS hHMAS EN PISTEI.
"Salute those who love us in faith."
Since it has been shown that AGAPAW is also used in contemporary
literature as synonyms, it is difficult to see how one can maintain that in
John there is a distinction between these words. The only possible place
may be in chapter 21. If there is a distinction there, this would be
further proof that 21 was added later by a different writer.
One other question. I know there are different words for love in
Hebrew, but can someone translate the conversation in John 21 between Jesus
and Peter into Aramaic? I have never seen that done. I have Deilitsch's
(spell) Hebrew NT and note that he uses only one word for love in this
Dr. Carlton L. Winbery
Foggleman Professor of Religion
Ph. 1 318 448 6103 hm
Ph. 1 318 487 7241 off
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