From: B. Ward Powers (
Date: Wed Jun 14 2000 - 13:10:20 EDT

<x-flowed>At 04:39 PM 000612 -0400, Jim West wrote:

>the whole notion arises because some think it wrong to put a slathering of
>wine on the tea-totalling lips of jesus. so, in an efort to remove the vile
>vine from the blessed saviour's sacred lips, the wine is turned into water
>(in a sense).

I am indeed one of those who is of the opinion that there is no evidence
that Jesus ever drank alcoholic wine. Perhaps he did so: I am not in a
position to affirm that he did not. (One cannot prove such a negative.) But
I affirm that there is no evidence that he did. So I am one of those to
whom Jim West, in his usual vigorous language, is referring.

>to support this really incredible and impossible supposition,

I accept that my position on OINOS is considered by Jim to be incredible
and impossible.

>exegesis has to make oinos into grapejuice whilst oinou remains wine. i.e.,
>if i recall the argument correctly, in the nominative the word means juice
>and in the genitive it means wine (or vice versa).
>such gymnastics

I do not hold such a view. Indeed, I know nothing of "such gymnastics" -
this is the first I have heard of it.

>betray a woeful and unlearned attitude towards first century
>palestinian life.

I have sought to research this issue in an objective, academic and (dare I
even say it) learned manner. I am well aware that others who have looked
into the evidence have reached conclusions from that evidence which differ
from mine. When I have looked at their positions, and the evidence with
which they support them, I have not been persuaded by such evidence to
abandon my own conclusions.

In my answers to the questions which other list members have raised, I have
sought to present something of a summary of what has lead me to my
understanding of the area of meaning of OINOS.

I must leave it to others to judge whether the position to which I have
been led about this matter (I would say, by the evidence) is to be
categorized as "a woeful and unlearned attitude towards first century
palestinian life".



Rev Dr B. Ward Powers Phone (International): 61-2-9799-7501
10 Grosvenor Crescent Phone (Australia): (02) 9799-7501
SUMMER HILL NSW 2130 email:
AUSTRALIA. Director, Tyndale College

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