[b-greek] Re: the intent of the Spirit/flesh saying at Mk. 14:38

From: c stirling bartholomew (cc.constantine@worldnet.att.net)
Date: Wed May 30 2001 - 13:31:39 EDT

on 5/29/01 6:42 PM, Jeffrey B. Gibson wrote (in his paper):

> Now I do not dispute that in Mk. 14:38 PEIRASMOS bears the sense "probing
> and proving of PISTIS",. Nor do I disagree that, according to Mark, "a
> testing of faithfulness" is what Jesus urges Peter, James, and John to pray
> that they be kept from. But it seems to me that it is neither escape on the
> part of Peter, James and John from their experiencing a test of their own
> faithfulness nor protection from their yielding to it that Mark has in view
> as the petition's object. Quite the contrary, I believe -- and will seek to
> argue here -- that what Mark presents Jesus as urging the disciples to ask
> for in praying MH ELQHTE EIS PEIRASMON is help to avoid their perpetrating a
> "testing of faithfulness", and more specifically a very particular "testing
> of faithfulness", namely, the one expressly forbidden to any who would be
> among the faithful of Israel -- the testing of the faithfulness of God.


Lets assume that the first move in your argument is acceptable. Lets assume
that MH ELQHTE EIS PEIRASMON means to avoid perpetrating a
"testing of faithfulness." The second move in your argument does not seem to
follow from the first. Why must God's faithfulness be the object of this

Peter, James, and John are going to be the leaders of hH Ekklesia. If they
are being warned about the weakness of SARKOS, and the potential of this
weakness resulting in their becoming agents of PEIRASMOU, it would seem much
more probable that the object of PEIRASMOU would be hH Ekklesia. If we
follow this reading then this warning of Jesus is similar to his many
warnings about becoming a SKANDALON. As the leaders of the hH Ekklesia
Peter, James, and John were in grave danger in this regard.

Thanks again for letting us see your paper.


Clayton Stirling Bartholomew
Three Tree Point
P.O. Box 255 Seahurst WA 98062

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