[b-greek] Re: the intent of the Spirit/flesh saying at Mk. 14:38

From: c stirling bartholomew (cc.constantine@worldnet.att.net)
Date: Wed May 30 2001 - 15:11:31 EDT

on 5/30/01 11:14 AM, Jeffrey B. Gibson wrote:

> c stirling bartholomew wrote:
>> Peter, James, and John are going to be the leaders of hH Ekklesia. If they
>> are being warned about the weakness of SARKOS, and the potential of this
>> weakness resulting in their becoming agents of PEIRASMOU, it would seem much
>> more probable that the object of PEIRASMOU would be hH Ekklesia. If we follow
>> this reading then this warning of Jesus is similar to his many warnings about
>> becoming a SKANDALON. As the leaders of the hH Ekklesia Peter, James, and
>> John were in grave danger in this regard.
> I'm not at all sure I follow you here. In any case, when the word SKANDALON
> appears in Mark it is applied to Peter for "thinking the things of men and not
> the things of God" with respect to the adequacy of suffering as the means by
> which God would have the Messiah fulfill the Messianic Mission (Mk. 8:27-33).
> I see nothing about the EKKLESIA here.


You are correct. EKKLESIA was a poor word choice since it does not appear in
this context. What I should have said is "the other disciples" would be the
object of PEIRASMOU.

The warnings about SKANDALON appear in Matt. 13:4, Matt. 16:23, Matt. 18:7,
Luke 17.1. Now some people might argue that it was impossible for Peter,
James, and John to become agents of SKANDALON in light of Matt. 13:4 where
the SKANDALON are removed from the BASILEIAS. However I think that Matt.
16:23 where Jesus is speaking to Peter shows that even the inner circle of
the disciples were capable of being agents of PEIRASMOU for Jesus and by
logical extension for the other disciples of Jesus.

The one major weakness in my suggested reading is that we do not see
PEIRASMOS used elsewhere exactly in this manner (I could find no examples)
but we do see it used in the LXX in the manner which you suggest. However I
have a hard time fitting your suggestion into Mark's flow of thought.


Clayton Stirling Bartholomew
 Three Tree Point
P.O. Box 255 Seahurst WA

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