[b-greek] Re: the intent of the Spirit/flesh saying at Mk. 14:38

From: Jeffrey B. Gibson (jgibson000@home.com)
Date: Wed May 30 2001 - 15:32:19 EDT

c stirling bartholomew wrote:

> Jeffery,
> You are correct. EKKLESIA was a poor word choice since it does not appear in
> this context. What I should have said is "the other disciples" would be the
> object of PEIRASMOU.
> The warnings about SKANDALON appear in Matt. 13:4, Matt. 16:23, Matt. 18:7,
> Luke 17.1. Now some people might argue that it was impossible for Peter,
> James, and John to become agents of SKANDALON in light of Matt. 13:4 where
> the SKANDALON are removed from the BASILEIAS. However I think that Matt.
> 16:23 where Jesus is speaking to Peter shows that even the inner circle of
> the disciples were capable of being agents of PEIRASMOU for Jesus and by
> logical extension for the other disciples of Jesus.

The problem here as I see it is (a) that Matthew has Jesus specifically say that
Peter is a SKANDALON only to himself (i.e, to Jesus) and (b) that the other
disciples are presented as siding with Peter and thinking with him "the things of
men". That's why in Matt. 16:24 they **along with Peter** are given the teaching
about taking up the cross.

> The one major weakness in my suggested reading is that we do not see
> PEIRASMOS used elsewhere exactly in this manner (I could find no examples)
> but we do see it used in the LXX in the manner which you suggest. However I
> have a hard time fitting your suggestion into Mark's flow of thought.

Well, as I noted, the Gethsemane scene is the culmination of the disciples going
over to "this generation" and repeating in their failure to keep awake and eventual
flight and denial of Jesus the "sin" that the wilderness generation engaged in at
Massah and at other times.

But I suspect we verge into theology here.



Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon.)
7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
Chicago, Illinois 60626
e-mail jgibson000@home.com

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