[b-greek] Romans 4:1

From: virgilsalvage1 (virgilsalvage1@msn.com)
Date: Fri Jun 08 2001 - 03:31:26 EDT

On Thur. 07 June 2001 at 22:19.....Clayton referring to......on 6/7/01 9:51
PM, c stirling bartholomew wrote:

> C.E.B. Cranfield accepts the NA/UBS reading but he attaches KATA SARKA
> hHMWN not TON PROPATORA. Cranfield's analysis really left me dumbfounded.
> just don't get it. I would make both hHMWN and KATA SARKA limiting
> constituents attached to TON PROPATORA.

I think there is a better way of viewing this. Lets say that KATA SARKA
limits TON PROPATORA hHMWN as a unit, not TON PROPATORA or hHMWN. This may
be what Cranfield is driving at but it isn't what he said.

Virgil here...to all,

    I appreciate a couple of matters that you have brought out here,
First the textual matter and then how Cranfield attaches KATA SARKA to

     The strength and impact of the NA/UBS reading is significant, I
believe. This reading seems to make sense because it puts to the front...two
items. hEURHKENAI ( The discovery ) and as you pointed out Clay, what should
be considered as a unit...TON PROPATORA hHMWN. Without this order TON
PROPATORA hHMWN is somewhat obscured or covered up. This puts KATA SARKA
last, this being important yes, but least important. KATA SARKA, it seems to
me speaks to or modifies both hEURHKENAI ( The Discovery ) and TON
PROPATORA hHMWN( Father or generator of that which is characterized by
us )....being the realm or actual situation and reality of where these two
matters happened. The most important matter being that Abraham discovered
something, and that Abraham became and is the father or source of hHMWN. Not
us...but genitive hHMWN...." that which is characterized by us ". This all
happened for Abraham KATA SARKA. Both his discovery and his fathering and
what it was that he fathered....was brought about according to flesh.

   Mark, I would say....along with Clayton and with his assistance,

    It appears KATA SARKA is there for both hEURHKENAI and TON PROPATORA

Virgil Newkirk
Salt Lake City, Utah 84115

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