From: Richard Allan Stauch (RStauch@worldnet.att.net)
Date: Sat Aug 04 2001 - 16:51:59 EDT
From: Carl W. Conrad [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org]
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 11:05 AM
>At 11:30 AM -0400 8/4/01, Jonathan Robie wrote:
>>Luke 1:15 ETI EK KOILIAS MHTROS AUTOU
>>Does this mean "from birth", or "while still in the womb"?
>This is awkward, but the ETI does seem to mean that EK KOILIAS MHTROS AUTOU
>is to be understood as a point of temporal reference. Louw & Nida offer:
>67.33 KATA; EPI; EN; EK; KAQWS:: markers of a point of time which is
>simultaneous to or overlaps with another point of time - 'when, at the time
>So I think the sense of ETI EK KOILIAS MHTROS AUTOU must be "already from
>the time before his birth." EK with a genitive is used even in older Greek
>with an indicator of age to indicate "ever since ..."--e.g. EK PAIDOS, EK
>MEIRAKIOU; I think this is comparable to Latin usage with A/AB: A PUERO
>HAEC FACIO = "I've been doing this since I was a boy."
I looked up EK, and discovered that it can be translated "with" after "verbs
of filling." could it be that some sense of "still with his mother's womb"
could be following "and of [the] Holy Spirit he will be filled?" Probably
not, I guess, since EK must relate to KOILIAS MHTROS AUTOU (all genitives),
not PLHSQHSETAI. Still, it is a subsidiary clause, isn't it? Maybe I'm
pushing my luck again, but I think Luke may have had some notion of
"with/within" in mind at this point. Is that not possible?
Richard Allan Stauch
Long Beach, CA
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