[b-greek] Re: Rev. 22:11 and 3rd person imperatives

From: c stirling bartholomew (cc.constantine@worldnet.att.net)
Date: Fri Oct 19 2001 - 21:32:52 EDT

> on 10/18/01 3:57 PM, boyd@huxcomm.net wrote:
>> I've had a lingering question about 3rd person imperatives,
>> which was further kindled by Revelation 22:11. Here's the text:
> {snip snip}
>> What are we to make of the imperatives in this verse?

on 10/19/01 12:59 AM, c stirling bartholomew wrote:
>> Jonathan,
>> In this passage the imperatives are stating what is going to take place.
>> They are not functioning as a command at all. The FORM is a command but the
>> sense is a pronouncement of what will indeed happen without fail.
>> To understand this you should not go digging around in grammars which are a
>> bad place for solving theological problems. You should start by finding a
>> good commentary or two on Isaiah* and take a look at Isaiah 6:9-10 which is
>> the classic statement on this topic. Note the other echoes of Isaiah 6:9-10
>> in the Apocalypse. I will not tell you where they are, you can find them.

on 10/19/01 2:57 PM, Steven Lo Vullo wrote:
> Clay,
> I agree with you that the imperatives in Rev 22.11 are imperatives of
> pronouncement. . . .Pronouncement Imperative." { snip snip}


While it is wonderful to occasionally have someone agree with me, I suspect
that our agreement is somewhat of an illusion. I was not suggesting a
category of the imperative called the "Pronouncement Imperative." What I was
suggesting is that we have at the formal level here is an imperative verb. I
don't think it is any kind of imperative, a red one or a blue one, a
chocolate one or a vanilla one. Just an imperative, plain and unqualified.

The total semantic framework of this text is what makes it a pronouncement.
The semantic framework includes all kinds of inter-textual connections like
Isaiah 6:9-10, Daniel (Theod.) as well as numerous cultural, historical and
theological issues. Creating yet another category called the "Pronouncement
Imperative" is an attempt to tie the entire semantic framework to the verb

Greek Grammars are a bad place to look for solutions to complex exegetical
problems. Most exegetical problems are not solved by creating a NEW pigeon
hole to stick the verb or noun into. These are pseudo solutions to real
problems. Any grammar that attempts to transform the analysis of the total
semantic framework into a vast complex system of grammatical categories
should be avoided. Stick with grammars which understand what the scope of
grammar is.


Clayton Stirling Bartholomew
Three Tree Point
P.O. Box 255 Seahurst WA 98062

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