[b-greek] Re: Lk 18:13; TWi hAMARTWLWi

From: Harry W. Jones (hjbluebird@aol.com)
Date: Sat Dec 01 2001 - 06:37:35 EST


Dear Carlton,

If I may be so bold to ask.

Why couldn't the relative clause TO PERI POLLWN EKCUNNOMENON, be in
apposition to TO hAIMA in Matthew 26:28 rather than attributive to it?

Best Regards,
Harry Jones

> In a message dated 11/30/01 2:51:12 AM, iver_larsen@sil.org writes:
>
> >> "Sometimes the article is equivalent to a relative pronoun in *force*.
> >> This is especially true when it is repeated after a noun before a
> >> phrase(e.g.,a gen. phrase)." He then gives 1 Cor. 1:18 as an example. He
>
> >> also
> >> gives Luke 7:32, Acts 15:1, Phil. 3:9 and Jas.2:7 as illustrations as well
> >> as a number of references too well.
> >>
> >> Best Regards,
> >
> >> Harry Jones
> >Thank you, Harry.
> >
> >Since this is a recognized feature of Greek, one can at least considerit
> >for Lk 18:13. It is easy to recognize the relative "force" of the article in
> >those constructions where English has to use a relative pronoun, but more
> >difficult where English may, but does not have to use a relative pronoun,
> >like Lk 18:13. My approach is to try to study the Greek data on their own
> >terms, as far as that is possible. That is what descriptive linguistics
> >aims to do.
> >
> James Brooks and I also allowed for a category of the article used as a
> pronoun, but the more I think of it, the more I think such is unneccessary.
>
> One of our egs was Matt. 26:28. TOUTO ESTIN TO hAIMA MOU THS
> DIAQHKHS *TO* PERI POLLWN EKCUNNOMENON EIS AFESIN hAMARTIWN.
>
> Now, it could be argued that the participle, EKCUNNOMENON, serves as
> the verb of the "relative" clause, but I think it suffices to say that the
> second article agreeing with hAIMA simply puts everything following it
> into an attributive position to hAIMA. Relative clauses have finite verbs
> expressed or understood, so I would be more convinced if we could
> find an article introducing a clause with a finite verb. Since there are
> two modifiers of hAIMA, MOU and THS DIAQHKHS, the use of the
> following article is the only way to express this attribution. Could this
> be one more of the categories that have gotten into the grammars but
> needs to be taken out?
>
> Carlton Winbery
> Louisiana College

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