[b-greek] Re: Baptizo

From: Jonathan Burke (jburke@sprint.com.au)
Date: Mon Dec 03 2001 - 01:37:20 EST


Greetings everyone,

I have a number of questions.

It has been proposed to me that:

- The word 'BAPTIZW' does not mean 'immerse'

- That the word 'BAPTIZW' means 'drown' (seems to contradict the above, I
know, but I never said this was going to be logical), and thus it could
never have been applied to water baptism

- That the word 'BAPTIZW' has as its essential meaning 'a changed state or
condition which is permanent'
(Support for this is apparently provided by quoting 'Whatever is capable of
thoroughly changing the character, state or condition of any object, is
capable of baptizing that object; and by such change of character, state, or
condition does, in fact, baptize it', James W Dale, 'Christic Baptism')

- That the New Testament does not use the word 'BAPTIZW' in its primary
sense

- That since the word 'BAPTIZW' only means at best to plunge in water - and
does not mean 'to plunge and to take out again' - it could not have been
applied to water baptism, because to baptize someone with this meaning would
necessitate immersing them fully in water and then *leaving them there*
permanently

- That 'When eis points out the complement of baptizo, this phrase
indicates a passing into (really or ideally) a new state or condition' and
thus water could not be involved

- That if 'BAPTIZW' were applied anywhere to a literal immersion in water,
the phrase which would be found in the New Testament would be 'BAPTIZW EIS
uDATI'

Your thoughts on this would be appreciated, thanks. My apologies if my
syntax has not been consistent.

JB [i.e. Jonathan Burke; new list-members please take note: BG
protocol requires a full-name signature to be appended to messages
sent to the list.]

[Moderator's note: Theological issues are interwoven here with the
issues of Greek grammar and diction. I ask respondents to confine
discussion to Greek grammar and diction and to steer clear of
theological issues which are out of order in this forum. CWC]


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