[b-greek] RE: 1Enoch 8 EPAOIDWN LUTHRION

From: c stirling bartholomew (cc.constantine@worldnet.att.net)
Date: Sat Dec 22 2001 - 14:19:01 EST


on 12/21/01 10:54 PM, David C. Hindley wrote:

> Charles made use of an eclectic Ethiopic text he created
> himself. I am not familiar with R. Laurence's translation,
> but he too likely relied upon one or more of the five or so
> Ethiopic mss known today, and these have some significant
> differences between them. So, I might add, do the two Greek
> mss containing this passage that both of these translators
> surely relied upon. This may partly explain why there are
> differences between translations in some particular points.
>
> Also, the scanned e-text of Charles' English translation
> available on the Web is actually that found in APOT, not his
> earlier 1912 publication. Keep in mind, too, that because of
> the way the text was formatted (verse number precedes the
> beginning of the line in which the new verse starts) the
> verse numbers in the scanned text are out of whack with
> their proper place in the translation.
>
> Have you consulted J. T. Milik's _The Books of Enoch_ (with
> Matthew Black, Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1976)? Enoch was
> probably written in Aramaic, and Milik here published almost
> all of the Aramaic fragments of the book found in Qumran
> cave 4.
>
> Fragment 4QEn-b 1.iii evidently contains the passage you
> inquire about in the original language.
> Unfortunately I do not read Aramaic, but Milik translates
> the passage as "(8:3) Semihazah taught [spell-binding and
> cutting of roots. Hermoni] taught the loosing of spells,
> [magic ...]". He provides a diplomatic transcription and
> also photos of the Aramaic fragments. There is also a handy
> table of fallen angels as they are found in the Greek,
> Ethiopic and Aramaic fragments, including what the names
> probably signify, in the footnotes to 4QEn-a.
>
> Alternately, E[phraim?] Isaac, in his English translation of
> the Ethiopic Kebran mss, renders 8:3 "... and Armaros the
> resolving of incantations". [See James H. Charlesworth, ed.,
> _The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha_ (Garden City: Doubleday,
> vol 1, 1983)]
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Dave Hindley
> Cleveland, Ohio, USA

Dave,

Thanks a lot for looking into this. Whoever posted the R.H. Charles Greek
Enoch on the web put the 1912 date on it. I just cut and pasted the
information from the web site. Just proves the old saying that you cannot
trust anything you find on the web.

You are right about the verse numbers, they don't always correspond but they
get you to the general portion of the text under consideration and that is
good enough for my purposes. Verse and Chapter numbers don't track between
Charles and Laurence either. It isn't as bad as reading Jeremiah in the LXX
however.

The difference between Milik's translation of 4QEn-b 1.iii and *Martinez'
4Q202 col. III line 2 doesn't amount to much, I just removed all the
material that wasn't relevant in my quote:

[. . . ] taught (how) to remove magic, [ . . .]

Like you, I don't "read" Aramaic. I can decipher it given time and did some
of that with the Aramaic portions of Daniel a few years back but my patience
gets thin and time is always short. So I am working now with the Greek MSS
of Enoch, using both Charles and M. Black. I will put in an ILL request for
Milik so that I can spot check the Aramaic now and then.

Thanks again for taking an interest and for the helpful information.

Clay

--
Clayton Stirling Bartholomew
Three Tree Point
P.O. Box 255 Seahurst WA 98062

*Florentino Garcia Martinez, The DSS Translated:The Qumran Texts in English,
Brill, 1994.


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