[b-greek] Re: Thayer - Mt 4:10 - A concrete example.

From: Clwinbery@aol.com
Date: Sun Dec 23 2001 - 19:37:22 EST



In a message dated 12/23/01 3:44:05 PM, Ted Mann writes:

>I'm sticking my oars in where I'm unqualified, but I wonder if it would
>be
>fair to say that the Thayer lexicon is fine as far as it goes, but probably
>doesn't go far enough for the purposes of current lexical studies, given
>the
>information that has come to light since the 19th Century. That is, a
>great
>deal of information can now be added to lexical entries about which Thayer
>knew
>little or nothing - information that is now available in more recent works
>(BDAG, etc.).

What Ted has said here is true. I would add also that some of the conclusions
in Thayer that are made more tentatively, now have more information to
support them. For instance he made some "guesses" about EPIOUSIOS that now
have support.

Harry, seemed to indicate that no specific words listed meant that there are
no words where Thayer gives a wrong meaning. I would caution that arguments
from silence do not produce evidence supporting Thayer, if that is what he
wants, but only evidence that no one on the list is going to do Harry's
homework for him. If he wants to support Thayer then he should make his own
list of words. Carl Conrad has suggested some good words to look for. I would
add that he should check all the prepositions and many of the other little
words.

I bought my edition of Thayer in 1955 and it is well worn. I learned after a
few years that I also needed Moulton and Milligan, BAG, BAGD, Louwe & Nida,
and two editions of LSJ. In writing a syntax book, I found these resources
indispensable. Along the way I read many of the articles in TDNT (TWNT
before all volumes were translated). I have spent many nights with Thayer
working on translations for classes and have a great deal of respect for this
work. But, it has been superceded by better more thorough works. One place I
differ now based on other works is the interpretation of hUPER in 1 Cor.
15:29. I have often cautioned students of the dangers of building theological
castles on prepositions as Thayer seems to do here. They are like shifting
sand in such instances.

So, there can be much respect for this work and at the same time acknowledge
that time marches on. Can a newer Greek student learn anything from Thayer?
Yes, but he will later have to modify some of it when he begins to want to go
below the surface meanings and avoid some pitfalls in doing theology from
texts. Remember, we don't do theology on the list.

Carlton Winbery
Louisiana College

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