[compost_tea] Re: Help with a good tea recipe

From: Tim Wilson <thegoodjob_at_hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 14:51:05 -0000

Indeed you are correct about the origin of the thread...my bad.

I am not upset in the slightest [and have not derided you] but do wish to m=
ake it clear that my only point in mentioning the DO2 levels on my site was=
 so that someone could adjust their ingredients down if they did not have t=
he same [or similar] water TDS and a well designed brewer. You are correct =
that I should add a portion concerning the capacity to raise the points by =
3 ppm. It is mentioned (as I recall) elsewhere but not in the recipes secti=
on.

FROM MY SITE
"Although I am providing these recipes and guidelines which have worked for=
 me, I cannot guarantee they will work identically with all brewers and com=
post quality. I encourage you to experiment but exercise common sense and c=
onsult with your professional contact.

The recipe amounts given are for use with water that has a TDS/EC (total di=
ssolved solids) of 35 PPM (parts per million) or less. This is really pure =
well or spring water with a relatively low mineral content. Water with a hi=
gh mineral content (or that is turbid) has a lower capacity to maintain dis=
solved oxygen. If you know or suspect that your water has a high mineral co=
ntent or high TDS then it is advisable to reduce the amounts of compost and=
 feedstock (e.g. molasses, kelp meal, rock powders, fish hydrolysate, etc.)=
. The amounts of compost recommended are for a very efficient brewer, capab=
le of raising DO2 rates close to 10 or 12 PPM. If this is not your situatio=
n, reduce the amounts used."

Please quote things in context. I said exactly as I professed. In the text =
which accompanies the video you mentioned with the DO2 meter I mention the =
capacity to raise the DO2 of the water around 3 PPM. It is there but I gues=
s I should repeat it more.

My point concerning supersaturation was simply to point out that the satura=
tion of water by gases is not limited to the levels which naturally occur a=
t various altitudes and temperature. I incorporated this physics into the R=
&D of my now patented method and the R&D which I mentioned in this discussi=
on was clearly not directed towards you but was in reference to commercial =
brewer manufacturers, many of whom seem unaware of this fact. I clearly sep=
arated this from the general population so no, I never did mention your R&D=
. I'm sorry that you thought that. I 'did' consider a waterfall in my desig=
n.

It sounds as if you are doing just fine with your brewer. Maybe you shouldn=
't worry about the perfection so much and just have fun experimenting. In m=
y opinion there is excessive worry in general about having a few anaerobes =
in the mix. I'm not sure if you acquired my microbe ID DVD but many have su=
ccessfully used it combined with the other resources on my webpage to learn=
 to assess their compost, soil and compost tea with a microscope.

Salutations,
Tim

--- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "migrainexx" <rap.rem_at_...> wrote:
>
> Hi Tim…I think you're the one confused now…You better read back throu=
gh this thread…I didn't start this thread about a recipe…I already have=
 the recipes I need…A man named Joshua Peters with the board name Jonatha=
n Bewley started this thread asking you for a recipe…I just went their to=
 read and try to learn something and I read this on your site…(efficient =
brewer, capable of raising DO2 rates close to 10 or 12 PPM.) which you said=
 you didn't say that but you really did…and you brought up super saturati=
on at water falls…I'm not interested in do2 levels at a water fall, just =
in my brewer as I stated several times…I brought up about with my sea lev=
el at 860 and temps. at 66.5 F my water can't hold no more then 8.2 mg/l…=
That's when you said I should have done more R/D about super saturation…Y=
our confused Tim…I understood perfectly about the dvd for just your micro=
scope after you told me why and you said I'm thinking of producing one for =
the average scope…Yes you do post a lot of free stuff and what I learned =
so far over 80% came from your site and I thanked you several times…And y=
es no one is obligated to answer anything but a lot of questions are answer=
ed on other topics…I find it hard to believe you guys aren't qualified to=
 answer such a simple question about turbulence…And I guess you assumed m=
y water out of the tap was between 8 and 9 when I said several times its 4.=
6…And I know the more microbes the better from reading on your site, agai=
n I didn't say anything about that…That was the other man again who start=
ed this thread…If your water out of the tap is 4.6 like mine how high wil=
l your do2 reading be then with your brewer…Or is that one of those quest=
ions your not obligated to answer…I'm sorry I upset you and got you so co=
nfused Tim…On your video you showed with your pin point meter 11.4 but yo=
u failed to mention your water out of the tap was between 8 and 9 mg/l…I =
won't bother you no more…My questions are answered…I built a 15 gallon =
brewer that will raise do2 level 3.6 mg/l in less then one half hour and ca=
n maintain 8.2 mg/l do2 levels and by your math its has enough power from =
my pump to do 25 gallon not even counting the circulator splash with the wh=
ole system running on 45 watts and I have under fifty dollars in parts from=
 shopping wisely…Thanks Tim…Rock
>
> >
> > Hold the horses Rock. You asked for a recipe and I directed you to seve=
ral. It was you who started asking about the DO2 rates and supersaturation =
which obviously do not apply to you. [on my page I believe I state temperat=
ure and TDS of water; your water may be different]
> >
> > As for your emails to me you asked me for things which I just do not ha=
ve so I cannot help you.
> >
> > You could not seem to understand that the DVD which goes out with the m=
icroscope is for ONLY that microscope. I have posted a lot of free informat=
ion on my webpage but I can only do so much.
> >
> > People who read this site are not obligated to answer questions and per=
haps no one felt qualified to judge your turbulance. I did not look at it.
> >
> > If you can raise your DO2 over 3 PPM it sounds like you are fine. Just =
brew and be happy. BTW, the more microbes the better. Don't worry about hav=
ing too many.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "migrainexx" <rap.rem_at_> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Tim…
> > > I guess this why I'm confused…I'm trying to get questions answered =
about my brewer alone…I asked here because this site is about tea brewing=
…My water out of the tap is 4.6…The brewer raises it to 8.2 witin one h=
alf hour or quicker, that was my first check after out of the tap…That's =
3.6…So I guess it's efficient from what you 3 is good…From what I read =
at my sea level that's all the water will hold reaching it's saturation val=
ue no matter if I hook up 10 more pumps it won't raise no higher then aroun=
d 8.2…I'm only trying to get two questions answered…From the video that=
 I posted of my brewer and the numbers I just provided is my brewer efficie=
nt and is my research right about my sea level not being able to raise my d=
o2 levels above 8.2…I'm the first to admit being a rookie at tea brewing=
…That's why I joined this group a year and a half…I'm not trying to sel=
l brewers or anything at all for that matter…I been retired for 15 years=
…I've been an organic gardener for over 40 years…All I want is a good b=
rewer for my home garden only…I'm also just learning the microscopy part =
now…If you remember Tim I asked you on your site if you built a small siz=
e home brewer yet like you mentioned you might on your site and also dvd's =
to learn microscopy with any microscope…If you did I would of just bought=
 yours…I was willing to pay for your time and all your research…It woul=
d have been so much easier for me…I joined this group because I was told =
if you have questions about tea brewing this is the place…What I don't un=
derstand is I posted a video showing my brewer in operation…I only asked =
one question to be answered…Does my turbulence look right to knock off th=
e microbes without damage…I would think for people brewing tea for all th=
ese years on this site, that would be easy to answer…Over 100 people from=
 this site viewed my video and I didn't get one reply…Not one…I mailed =
Jeff to his email off board and asked him to please view my video to see if=
 its right so I can continue on with my do2 testing or more r&d and a diffe=
rent design…Sorry about the confusion about the names…I was told not to=
 use your real name when you join a site on the internet for security reaso=
ns…That's what I was told to do…If you remember over a year ago I told =
you on your site email I was the same person…It must of slipped your mind=
 being so busy…I'm not trying to be sarcastic to you Tim or anybody on th=
is site, I just want to learn the right way…I'm so thankful and appreciat=
ive to all from this site what I have learned… Rock
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "Tim Wilson" <thegoodjob_at_> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Migraine? Rock?
> > > >
> > > > I'm away from home/library right now. When I get home I'll post som=
e resources. One part you have missed is that I am discussing water alone. =
Once you add compost and foods and organisms begin using up the O2 as they =
multiply the O2 drops sharply as I'm sure you've noticed. If a brewer can o=
nly raise water alone to only 8 ppm DO2 at roughly 65 degrees, it may have =
a tough time maintaining DO2 at 6 ppm with 2 to 3 percent compost over 24 t=
o 40 hours. Most fairly clean water comes out of the tap at 8 to 9 ppm. I m=
ake recommendations that a good brewer design should be able to raise the D=
O2 by around 3 ppm. Homemade brewers do not need such strictures, as there =
is only one person who needs to be satisfied with the results.
> > > >
> > > > I'm unsure how the information you posted relates to the naturally =
occuring supersaturation of oxygen which takes place proximal to waterfalls=
 and rapidly flowing streams as I mentioned.
> > > >
> > > > Salutations,
> > > > Tim
> > > >
> > > > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "migrainexx" <rap.rem_at_> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Tim…Here's what I just read about super saturation…How doe=
s this apply to a brewer…Do you really do this…Does anyone do this in t=
ea brewing...I don't think this applies to my R&D…Why would I have to sup=
ersaturate if my levels are at 8.2 mg/l and I only need 6 mg/l…Seams like=
 a waste of time or over kill for me…What's the advantage…What does tha=
t mean below, chemical solution and pressure at a given temperature.
> > > > > 1. To cause (a chemical solution) to be more highly concentrated =
than is normally possible under given conditions of temperature and pressur=
e.
> > > > > 2. To cause (a vapor) to exceed the normal saturation vapor press=
ure at a given temperature.
> > > > > supersaturation su'per·sat'u·ra'tion n
> > > > > McGraw-Hill Science & Technology Encyclopedia: Supersaturation
> > > > >
> > > > > A solution is at the saturation point when dissolved solute in it=
s crystallizes from it at the same rate at which it dissolves. Under prescr=
ibed experimental conditions of temperature and pressure, a solution can co=
ntain at saturation only one fixed amount of dissolved solute. However, it =
is possible to prepare relatively stable solutions which contain a quantity=
 of a dissolved solute greater than that of the saturation value provided s=
olute phase is absent. Such solutions are said to be supersaturated. They c=
an be prepared by changing the experimental conditions of a system so that =
greater solubility is obtained, perhaps by heating the solution, and then c=
arefully returning the system to or near its original state. The addition o=
f solute phase will immediately relieve supersaturation. Solutions in which=
 there is no spontaneous formation of solute phase for extended periods of =
time are said to be metastable. There is no sharp line of demarcation betwe=
en an unstable and metastable solution. The process whereby initial aggrega=
tes within a supersaturated solution develop spontaneously into particles o=
f new stable phase is known as nucleation. The greater the degree of supers=
aturation, the greater will be the number of nuclei formed.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "Tim Wilson" <thegoodjob_at_> wr=
ote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I actually did not say quite that if you reread, [I just sugges=
ted adjusting amounts] however it is a common error amongst many brewer man=
ufacturers, never mind the general population that dissolved O2 rates in a =
brewer are limited to saturation rates. In actuality, the principle of supe=
r-saturation should have been applied in the R&D which went into the design=
 process. One can see natural occurances of this in areas proximal to water=
falls. I actually measured the dissolved oxygen at 2400 feet above sea leve=
l at around 65 degrees and as I recall about 30 ppm TDS water.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You are doing nothing wrong. If you can maintain above 5.9 ppm =
DO2 with ingredients added you are fine.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Salutations,
> > > > > > Tim
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "migrainexx" <rap.rem_at_> wro=
te:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Tim
> > > > > > > I'm confused again…In your recipes you say to have a brewer=
 capable of raising DO2 rates close to 10 or 12 ppm…I thought do2 levels =
had to do with water quality, temperature and what sea level your at…I li=
ve in PA and at my sea level at 66.5 F. my do2 saturation value in water is=
 around 8.2…That's all my water will hold…How do I raise a level to 10 =
to 12 ppm if my water can't hold it…I know my pump has the capabilities t=
o do 25 gallons using your math and formulas. So with only a 15 gallon it's=
 real efficient…It will raise the do2 levels 3.6 mg/l in less then one ho=
ur to 8.2…when I take my readings I hold me probe in the water where thei=
rs no air agitated discharge…What am I doing wrong…Thanks as always…M=
igraine
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "Tim Wilson" <thegoodjob_at_=
> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi Joshua,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I don't think that overcrowding microbes is a concern in AC=
T. I do have some recipes listed here. http://www.microbeorganics.com/#Comp=
ost_Tea_Recipes They may be of some help.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Tim
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Bewley <ummyep=
p_at_> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I have been currently brewing 40 gallons of tea at a time=
 and wish to move up my scale to 140 gallons. I purchased the correct pumps=
 to have the right amount of air but now I need to revise my ingredients to=
 brew 140 gallons instead of 40.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > My recipe for 40 gallons was 20 cups of worm poop, 3/4 cu=
ps molasses, humic acid and fish emulsion.
> > > > > > > > > I was using also Maxicrop seaweed extract but have been s=
eeing some studies that seem to suggest the addition of seaweed could not b=
e beneficial but rather work against the end objective of creating an envir=
onment where the soil is alive and working more on it's own.
> > > > > > > > > I'm hoping it takes less ingredients to make more tea as =
I've been careful in the past not to over breed the micros too fast so they=
 are not overcrowded.
> > > > > > > > > Any info is appreciated.
> > > > > > > > > Joshua Peters.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>




Received on Sun May 15 2011 - 10:51:34 EDT

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