RE: [compost_tea] Re: Help with a good tea recipe

From: Stephen Steyn <ssteyn_at_wcaccess.co.za>
Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 07:19:57 +0200

Tim;

That's a well-balanced answer. Nice.

SS

 

From: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com [mailto:compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Tim Wilson
Sent: 15 May 2011 16:51
To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Help with a good tea recipe

 

  

Indeed you are correct about the origin of the thread...my bad.

I am not upset in the slightest [and have not derided you] but do wish to
make it clear that my only point in mentioning the DO2 levels on my site was
so that someone could adjust their ingredients down if they did not have the
same [or similar] water TDS and a well designed brewer. You are correct that
I should add a portion concerning the capacity to raise the points by 3 ppm.
It is mentioned (as I recall) elsewhere but not in the recipes section.

FROM MY SITE
"Although I am providing these recipes and guidelines which have worked for
me, I cannot guarantee they will work identically with all brewers and
compost quality. I encourage you to experiment but exercise common sense and
consult with your professional contact.

The recipe amounts given are for use with water that has a TDS/EC (total
dissolved solids) of 35 PPM (parts per million) or less. This is really pure
well or spring water with a relatively low mineral content. Water with a
high mineral content (or that is turbid) has a lower capacity to maintain
dissolved oxygen. If you know or suspect that your water has a high mineral
content or high TDS then it is advisable to reduce the amounts of compost
and feedstock (e.g. molasses, kelp meal, rock powders, fish hydrolysate,
etc.). The amounts of compost recommended are for a very efficient brewer,
capable of raising DO2 rates close to 10 or 12 PPM. If this is not your
situation, reduce the amounts used."

Please quote things in context. I said exactly as I professed. In the text
which accompanies the video you mentioned with the DO2 meter I mention the
capacity to raise the DO2 of the water around 3 PPM. It is there but I guess
I should repeat it more.

My point concerning supersaturation was simply to point out that the
saturation of water by gases is not limited to the levels which naturally
occur at various altitudes and temperature. I incorporated this physics into
the R&D of my now patented method and the R&D which I mentioned in this
discussion was clearly not directed towards you but was in reference to
commercial brewer manufacturers, many of whom seem unaware of this fact. I
clearly separated this from the general population so no, I never did
mention your R&D. I'm sorry that you thought that. I 'did' consider a
waterfall in my design.

It sounds as if you are doing just fine with your brewer. Maybe you
shouldn't worry about the perfection so much and just have fun
experimenting. In my opinion there is excessive worry in general about
having a few anaerobes in the mix. I'm not sure if you acquired my microbe
ID DVD but many have successfully used it combined with the other resources
on my webpage to learn to assess their compost, soil and compost tea with a
microscope.

Salutations,
Tim

--- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"migrainexx" <rap.rem_at_...> wrote:
>
> Hi Tim.I think you're the one confused now.You better read back through
this thread.I didn't start this thread about a recipe.I already have the
recipes I need.A man named Joshua Peters with the board name Jonathan Bewley
started this thread asking you for a recipe.I just went their to read and
try to learn something and I read this on your site.(efficient brewer,
capable of raising DO2 rates close to 10 or 12 PPM.) which you said you
didn't say that but you really did.and you brought up super saturation at
water falls.I'm not interested in do2 levels at a water fall, just in my
brewer as I stated several times.I brought up about with my sea level at 860
and temps. at 66.5 F my water can't hold no more then 8.2 mg/l.That's when
you said I should have done more R/D about super saturation.Your confused
Tim.I understood perfectly about the dvd for just your microscope after you
told me why and you said I'm thinking of producing one for the average
scope.Yes you do post a lot of free stuff and what I learned so far over 80%
came from your site and I thanked you several times.And yes no one is
obligated to answer anything but a lot of questions are answered on other
topics.I find it hard to believe you guys aren't qualified to answer such a
simple question about turbulence.And I guess you assumed my water out of the
tap was between 8 and 9 when I said several times its 4.6.And I know the
more microbes the better from reading on your site, again I didn't say
anything about that.That was the other man again who started this thread.If
your water out of the tap is 4.6 like mine how high will your do2 reading be
then with your brewer.Or is that one of those questions your not obligated
to answer.I'm sorry I upset you and got you so confused Tim.On your video
you showed with your pin point meter 11.4 but you failed to mention your
water out of the tap was between 8 and 9 mg/l.I won't bother you no more.My
questions are answered.I built a 15 gallon brewer that will raise do2 level
3.6 mg/l in less then one half hour and can maintain 8.2 mg/l do2 levels and
by your math its has enough power from my pump to do 25 gallon not even
counting the circulator splash with the whole system running on 45 watts and
I have under fifty dollars in parts from shopping wisely.Thanks Tim.Rock
>
> >
> > Hold the horses Rock. You asked for a recipe and I directed you to
several. It was you who started asking about the DO2 rates and
supersaturation which obviously do not apply to you. [on my page I believe I
state temperature and TDS of water; your water may be different]
> >
> > As for your emails to me you asked me for things which I just do not
have so I cannot help you.
> >
> > You could not seem to understand that the DVD which goes out with the
microscope is for ONLY that microscope. I have posted a lot of free
information on my webpage but I can only do so much.
> >
> > People who read this site are not obligated to answer questions and
perhaps no one felt qualified to judge your turbulance. I did not look at
it.
> >
> > If you can raise your DO2 over 3 PPM it sounds like you are fine. Just
brew and be happy. BTW, the more microbes the better. Don't worry about
having too many.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
<mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com> , "migrainexx" <rap.rem_at_> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Tim.
> > > I guess this why I'm confused.I'm trying to get questions answered
about my brewer alone.I asked here because this site is about tea brewing.My
water out of the tap is 4.6.The brewer raises it to 8.2 witin one half hour
or quicker, that was my first check after out of the tap.That's 3.6.So I
guess it's efficient from what you 3 is good.From what I read at my sea
level that's all the water will hold reaching it's saturation value no
matter if I hook up 10 more pumps it won't raise no higher then around
8.2.I'm only trying to get two questions answered.From the video that I
posted of my brewer and the numbers I just provided is my brewer efficient
and is my research right about my sea level not being able to raise my do2
levels above 8.2.I'm the first to admit being a rookie at tea brewing.That's
why I joined this group a year and a half.I'm not trying to sell brewers or
anything at all for that matter.I been retired for 15 years.I've been an
organic gardener for over 40 years.All I want is a good brewer for my home
garden only.I'm also just learning the microscopy part now.If you remember
Tim I asked you on your site if you built a small size home brewer yet like
you mentioned you might on your site and also dvd's to learn microscopy with
any microscope.If you did I would of just bought yours.I was willing to pay
for your time and all your research.It would have been so much easier for
me.I joined this group because I was told if you have questions about tea
brewing this is the place.What I don't understand is I posted a video
showing my brewer in operation.I only asked one question to be answered.Does
my turbulence look right to knock off the microbes without damage.I would
think for people brewing tea for all these years on this site, that would be
easy to answer.Over 100 people from this site viewed my video and I didn't
get one reply.Not one.I mailed Jeff to his email off board and asked him to
please view my video to see if its right so I can continue on with my do2
testing or more r&d and a different design.Sorry about the confusion about
the names.I was told not to use your real name when you join a site on the
internet for security reasons.That's what I was told to do.If you remember
over a year ago I told you on your site email I was the same person.It must
of slipped your mind being so busy.I'm not trying to be sarcastic to you Tim
or anybody on this site, I just want to learn the right way.I'm so thankful
and appreciative to all from this site what I have learned. Rock
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
<mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com> , "Tim Wilson" <thegoodjob_at_> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Migraine? Rock?
> > > >
> > > > I'm away from home/library right now. When I get home I'll post some
resources. One part you have missed is that I am discussing water alone.
Once you add compost and foods and organisms begin using up the O2 as they
multiply the O2 drops sharply as I'm sure you've noticed. If a brewer can
only raise water alone to only 8 ppm DO2 at roughly 65 degrees, it may have
a tough time maintaining DO2 at 6 ppm with 2 to 3 percent compost over 24 to
40 hours. Most fairly clean water comes out of the tap at 8 to 9 ppm. I make
recommendations that a good brewer design should be able to raise the DO2 by
around 3 ppm. Homemade brewers do not need such strictures, as there is only
one person who needs to be satisfied with the results.
> > > >
> > > > I'm unsure how the information you posted relates to the naturally
occuring supersaturation of oxygen which takes place proximal to waterfalls
and rapidly flowing streams as I mentioned.
> > > >
> > > > Salutations,
> > > > Tim
> > > >
> > > > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
<mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com> , "migrainexx" <rap.rem_at_> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Tim.Here's what I just read about super saturation.How does
this apply to a brewer.Do you really do this.Does anyone do this in tea
brewing...I don't think this applies to my R&D.Why would I have to
supersaturate if my levels are at 8.2 mg/l and I only need 6 mg/l.Seams like
a waste of time or over kill for me.What's the advantage.What does that mean
below, chemical solution and pressure at a given temperature.
> > > > > 1. To cause (a chemical solution) to be more highly concentrated
than is normally possible under given conditions of temperature and
pressure.
> > > > > 2. To cause (a vapor) to exceed the normal saturation vapor
pressure at a given temperature.
> > > > > supersaturation su'per.sat'u.ra'tion n
> > > > > McGraw-Hill Science & Technology Encyclopedia: Supersaturation
> > > > >
> > > > > A solution is at the saturation point when dissolved solute in its
crystallizes from it at the same rate at which it dissolves. Under
prescribed experimental conditions of temperature and pressure, a solution
can contain at saturation only one fixed amount of dissolved solute.
However, it is possible to prepare relatively stable solutions which contain
a quantity of a dissolved solute greater than that of the saturation value
provided solute phase is absent. Such solutions are said to be
supersaturated. They can be prepared by changing the experimental conditions
of a system so that greater solubility is obtained, perhaps by heating the
solution, and then carefully returning the system to or near its original
state. The addition of solute phase will immediately relieve
supersaturation. Solutions in which there is no spontaneous formation of
solute phase for extended periods of time are said to be metastable. There
is no sharp line of demarcation between an unstable and metastable solution.
The process whereby initial aggregates within a supersaturated solution
develop spontaneously into particles of new stable phase is known as
nucleation. The greater the degree of supersaturation, the greater will be
the number of nuclei formed.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
<mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com> , "Tim Wilson" <thegoodjob_at_> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I actually did not say quite that if you reread, [I just
suggested adjusting amounts] however it is a common error amongst many
brewer manufacturers, never mind the general population that dissolved O2
rates in a brewer are limited to saturation rates. In actuality, the
principle of super-saturation should have been applied in the R&D which went
into the design process. One can see natural occurances of this in areas
proximal to waterfalls. I actually measured the dissolved oxygen at 2400
feet above sea level at around 65 degrees and as I recall about 30 ppm TDS
water.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You are doing nothing wrong. If you can maintain above 5.9 ppm
DO2 with ingredients added you are fine.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Salutations,
> > > > > > Tim
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
<mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com> , "migrainexx" <rap.rem_at_> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Tim
> > > > > > > I'm confused again.In your recipes you say to have a brewer
capable of raising DO2 rates close to 10 or 12 ppm.I thought do2 levels had
to do with water quality, temperature and what sea level your at.I live in
PA and at my sea level at 66.5 F. my do2 saturation value in water is around
8.2.That's all my water will hold.How do I raise a level to 10 to 12 ppm if
my water can't hold it.I know my pump has the capabilities to do 25 gallons
using your math and formulas. So with only a 15 gallon it's real
efficient.It will raise the do2 levels 3.6 mg/l in less then one hour to
8.2.when I take my readings I hold me probe in the water where theirs no air
agitated discharge.What am I doing wrong.Thanks as always.Migraine
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
<mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com> , "Tim Wilson" <thegoodjob_at_> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi Joshua,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I don't think that overcrowding microbes is a concern in
ACT. I do have some recipes listed here.
http://www.microbeorganics.com/#Compost_Tea_Recipes They may be of some
help.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Tim
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
<mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com> , Jonathan Bewley <ummyepp_at_> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I have been currently brewing 40 gallons of tea at a time
and wish to move up my scale to 140 gallons. I purchased the correct pumps
to have the right amount of air but now I need to revise my ingredients to
brew 140 gallons instead of 40.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > My recipe for 40 gallons was 20 cups of worm poop, 3/4
cups molasses, humic acid and fish emulsion.
> > > > > > > > > I was using also Maxicrop seaweed extract but have been
seeing some studies that seem to suggest the addition of seaweed could not
be beneficial but rather work against the end objective of creating an
environment where the soil is alive and working more on it's own.
> > > > > > > > > I'm hoping it takes less ingredients to make more tea as
I've been careful in the past not to over breed the micros too fast so they
are not overcrowded.
> > > > > > > > > Any info is appreciated.
> > > > > > > > > Joshua Peters.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>



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Received on Tue May 17 2011 - 10:59:53 EDT

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