[compost_tea] Re: Vortex Brewer.

From: evanfolds <evan_at_progressearth.com>
Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 13:28:14 -0000

Will, are you proposing that you can generate data on everything valuable t=
o a living system? We must be more humble in our approach or we will miss t=
he forest from the trees. This mentality has resulted in the idea of "essen=
tial nutrients", pharmaceutical-based medicine, and the general anthropocen=
trism that cripples us.

We manufacture and distribute Storch's Votex Brewer. As Tim relays there is=
 certainly a higher DO relative to the same volume of solution and pump whe=
n water is allowed to tkae its natural flow. This is the "technology" behin=
d a river meandering, for instance. See here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?=
v=k-vx-ZxdYb0

You guys may jump all over the video, we could certainly edit it better, bu=
t it serves the purpose. What's interesting is that the DO seems to stay ar=
ound longer when water has been vortexed. It makes it "alive" and more capa=
ble of what it needs to do for Nature.

On another note, however, our concentration on DO illustrates our short sig=
hted approach. It's like brix, it is an indirect relation to plant health, =
but it does not define it. AIR is much more than DO. While DO is important =
we tend not to think about the other components of air necessary for living=
 life. Air is around 80% nitrogen. In a BioDynamic sesne nitrogen defines a=
ction in life (read Hauschka, The Nature of Substance), for instance, amino=
 acids (the building blocks of proteins, what carry out metabolic activity)=
 are defined by nitrogen. It would be interesting to pump pure oxygen and a=
lternatively pure nitrogen into a compost tea solution to note biological a=
ctivity.

And by the way, you don't need air stones in a Vortex Brewer (Jeff, are you=
 proud?), you don't need to aerate a river, right?

Cheers,

evan
www.VortexBrewer.com
www.ProgressEarth.com






--- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, Will Buck <willbuck76_at_...> wrote:
>
> Agreed that we are only trying to grow bugs. If the vortex does not work,=
 it is
> an easy conversion to the more conventional systems you have pioneered. =
I have
> spent lots of time researching this and truthfully I have not seen any re=
al data
> showing the efficacy of brewing AACT in a vortex brewer. Especially a la=
rger
> brewer which has its own set of problems. So at this point I can't show =
you the
> data. But if I can get it too work.....
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "soilfoodweb_at_..." <soilfoodweb_at_...>
> To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, May 26, 2011 5:10:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Vortex Brewer.
>
>
> the only thing important, ultimately, is the sets of microorganisms you p=
ull
> from the compost into the water, and then how they grow in that water onc=
e
> released. the water needs to stay aerobic to grow the beneficials. Anae=
robic
> organisms take the inorganic, soluble N, S, and P and turn them into gase=
s that
> you lose from the tea if anaerobic conditions occur. In addition some co=
mpounds
> can be made .... only in anaerobic conditions..... that kill microorganis=
ms and
> harm the plant, or plant roots, if those compounds come in contact with t=
he
> plant.
>
>
> The point of all this talk about aeration to to GROW MICROORGANISMS.
>
> Where's your data showing what you high tech machines do to the microorga=
nisms?
>
>
> That is always my basis for making decisions about what to do in a brewer=
.
>
> You all have lost sight of why you are doing this work.
>
> If you don't measure the organisms, and report what effect the changes in=
 where
> you put the vortex have on the organisms, then I am wasting my time to tr=
y to
> teach you anything.
>
>
> Good luck with the physics, because you have forgotten biology, once agai=
n.
>
>
> Elaine R. Ingham
> President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Will Buck <willbuck76_at_...>
> To: compost_tea <compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wed, May 25, 2011 10:32 am
> Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Vortex Brewer.
>
>
>
> Thank Bobbie for your input. I have seen most of your videos and I will =
review
> the link you have posted. Your work is largely what motivated me to go V=
ortex.
> Not so much that I am into biodynamics but I like the elegance of the mac=
hine.
> And who doesn't like staring into the vortex, it is like watching fire.
>
> While I have spent a fair amount of time researching this by reviewing yo=
ur
> videos and reading Tim Wilson's page among others. But I approached this=
 
> knowing that constructing Vortex brewer on a larger scale had its risks b=
ecause
> there is not much info relating to DO during the brew cycle. And yes I =
am
> trying to brew AACT.
>
> Back to the design. I can move the stones up and down the up feed tubes =
very
> easily. If I understand you correctly you are suggesting putting the st=
ones
> near the bottom. I have about 8 feet of upfeed to play with. It also ap=
pears
> that I am getting slow flow and I want a better vortex. So any advise in=
 terms
> of increasing flow would be appreciated.
>
> The pump I purchased is called the ecoplus 7 and it produces about 7 CFM =
however
> it is very hard to find any performance curve on this pump. I suspect it =
looses
> preformance with any back pressure. I think the sweetwater SL 170 or 190=
 
> produce considerably more air at depth but they are expensive. If I go w=
ith Tim
> Wilson's suggestion of .05 CFM of air per gallon of water I am looking at=
 
> needing at least 12 CFM
>
> thanks
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bobby Grimes <biodynamichawaii_at_...>
> To: "compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com" <compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 10:25:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Vortex Brewer.
>
>
> Bobby here. Imagine you cut your upfeed tube in half, while the tank and =
tubes
> are full of water. The water will flow out very aggressively until it equ=
alizes.
> Stones at the bottom slow the surface exchange. There can be no stagnant =
water
> in this tank. Please watch my brewer, 350 gallons, 10 min run time.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjXFh_ICxic&feature=youtube_gdata_play=
er
>
> Mahalo Bobby G
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 24, 2011, at 6:41 AM, "Stephen Steyn" <ssteyn_at_...> wrote:
>
>
>
> >Wrong again. Bobby is right on the money. Don’t go to deep with =
the air source
> >as all your doing is heating up your pump and reducing the amount of air=
 it can
> >put out due to backpressure. Convection will oxygenate all the fluid. No=
 real
> >point in going down more than a metre, just let the vortex tubes draw fr=
om near
> >the bottom.
> >Also be sure to keep your pump above the liquid level so that it doesn=
’t fill
> >with water when you switch off.
> >SS
> >
> >From:compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com [mailto:compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com] On=
 Behalf
> >Of soilfoodweb_at_...
> >Sent: 24 May 2011 16:40
> >To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Vortex Brewer.
> >
> >
> >Putting the air at the bottom of the tank is critical to get the water a=
t the
> >bottom of the tank to mix and not be stagnant.
> >
> >
> >Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
> >
> >
> >-----Original message-----
> >From: Bobby Grimes <biodynamichawaii_at_...>
> >To: "compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com" <compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 02:47:03 GMT+00:00
> >Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Vortex Brewer.
> >
> >Will, I would put the stones in the upfeed tubes right where the tank go=
esfrom
> >90 deg to your 45 or 60 deg angle. At the bottom the water flows of it o=
wn
> >accord and then you just pick up where that slows down and stones/air li=
ft it
> >from there.
> >I would use the Sweetwater SL170 or the next smaller linear air pump.
> >Bobby
> >
> >
> >
> >Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >On May 23, 2011, at 12:20 PM, "Will Buck" <willbuck76_at_...> wrote:
> >
> >>Hi, I am in the process of building a 240 gallon Vortex brewer.
> >>
> >>My first brew went anaerobic almost immediately. Clearly I have undersi=
zed the
> >>air supply and while I would appreciate advise on which pump I should p=
urchase
> >>(I used an Eco7 that allegedly provides7 cfm, it appears that I need to=
 at least
> >>double that rate), my question is more about the properties of an air l=
ift pumps
> >>so I can maximize the amount of DO.
> >>
> >>My design is similar to Bobby Grimes. I purchased a cone bottom tank th=
at I
> >>mounted on a stand so the tank is about 4 feet off the ground (ideal f=
or
> >>gravity filling the spray rig). The manifold is attached to the base of=
 the
> >>stand and there are three 2 inch pipes that return water over the top o=
f the
> >>tank via air lift from a 17 inch air stones.
> >>
> >>
> >>My question is at what depth should I put the air stones in the pipes? =
If I put
> >>the stones near the bottom of the pipe I thought this would be ideal be=
cause the
> >>air bubbles would be in contact with the water for a longer period of t=
ime as
> >>they rose up the pipe thus increasing DO. But of course the deeper the =
air stone
> >>the lower the performance of the air pump because the resistance pressu=
re is
> >>greater. In other words, is there any rule of thumb regarding the depth=
 of the
> >>air stone?
> >>
> >>This question becomes very important as I look at purchasing a new pump=
 as
> >>regenerative blowers loose performance very quickly the more pressure t=
hey are
> >>working under.
> >>
> >>
> >>I would really appreciate any help or ideas, thanks in advance.
>




Received on Fri May 27 2011 - 13:02:20 EDT

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