In order to adress the issue of 'pulling microorganisms from compost' and m=
ultiplying in water with foodstock, I have not seen any bubble brewers whic=
h can extract and multiply the volume of microorganisms seen in a design in=
corporating air lifts like the vortex does. My design which is marketed doe=
s not create a strong vortex only because I wanted to create something affo=
rdable, cheap to ship and useable with a regular 55 gallon barrel. If more =
low income small farmers and growers could afford it, I would certainly be =
using a cone bottom tank, which would create a stronger vortex.
I'm not saying that I do not believe in the properties of water being alter=
ed via a vortex, I just do not know at this point and am keeping an open mi=
nd.
And yeah, you can operate an air lift without a diffuser. I use a slotted P=
VC diffuser to supercharge the water with air inside the pipe.
Salutations,
Tim
--- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "evanfolds" <evan_at_...> wrote:
>
> Will, are you proposing that you can generate data on everything valuable=
to a living system? We must be more humble in our approach or we will miss=
the forest from the trees. This mentality has resulted in the idea of "ess=
ential nutrients", pharmaceutical-based medicine, and the general anthropoc=
entrism that cripples us.
>
> We manufacture and distribute Storch's Votex Brewer. As Tim relays there =
is certainly a higher DO relative to the same volume of solution and pump w=
hen water is allowed to tkae its natural flow. This is the "technology" beh=
ind a river meandering, for instance. See here:
http://www.youtube.com/watc=
h?v=k-vx-ZxdYb0
>
> You guys may jump all over the video, we could certainly edit it better, =
but it serves the purpose. What's interesting is that the DO seems to stay =
around longer when water has been vortexed. It makes it "alive" and more ca=
pable of what it needs to do for Nature.
>
> On another note, however, our concentration on DO illustrates our short s=
ighted approach. It's like brix, it is an indirect relation to plant health=
, but it does not define it. AIR is much more than DO. While DO is importan=
t we tend not to think about the other components of air necessary for livi=
ng life. Air is around 80% nitrogen. In a BioDynamic sesne nitrogen defines=
action in life (read Hauschka, The Nature of Substance), for instance, ami=
no acids (the building blocks of proteins, what carry out metabolic activit=
y) are defined by nitrogen. It would be interesting to pump pure oxygen and=
alternatively pure nitrogen into a compost tea solution to note biological=
activity.
>
> And by the way, you don't need air stones in a Vortex Brewer (Jeff, are y=
ou proud?), you don't need to aerate a river, right?
>
> Cheers,
>
> evan
> www.VortexBrewer.com
> www.ProgressEarth.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, Will Buck <willbuck76_at_> wrote:
> >
> > Agreed that we are only trying to grow bugs. If the vortex does not wor=
k, it is
> > an easy conversion to the more conventional systems you have pioneered.=
I have
> > spent lots of time researching this and truthfully I have not seen any =
real data
> > showing the efficacy of brewing AACT in a vortex brewer. Especially a =
larger
> > brewer which has its own set of problems. So at this point I can't sho=
w you the
> > data. But if I can get it too work.....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: "soilfoodweb_at_" <soilfoodweb_at_>
> > To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thu, May 26, 2011 5:10:48 AM
> > Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Vortex Brewer.
> >
> >
> > the only thing important, ultimately, is the sets of microorganisms you=
pull
> > from the compost into the water, and then how they grow in that water o=
nce
> > released. the water needs to stay aerobic to grow the beneficials. An=
aerobic
> > organisms take the inorganic, soluble N, S, and P and turn them into ga=
ses that
> > you lose from the tea if anaerobic conditions occur. In addition some =
compounds
> > can be made .... only in anaerobic conditions..... that kill microorgan=
isms and
> > harm the plant, or plant roots, if those compounds come in contact with=
the
> > plant.
> >
> >
> > The point of all this talk about aeration to to GROW MICROORGANISMS. =
> >
> > Where's your data showing what you high tech machines do to the microor=
ganisms?
> >
> >
> > That is always my basis for making decisions about what to do in a brew=
er.
> >
> > You all have lost sight of why you are doing this work.
> >
> > If you don't measure the organisms, and report what effect the changes =
in where
> > you put the vortex have on the organisms, then I am wasting my time to =
try to
> > teach you anything.
> >
> >
> > Good luck with the physics, because you have forgotten biology, once ag=
ain.
> >
> >
> > Elaine R. Ingham
> > President, Soil Foodweb Inc.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Will Buck <willbuck76_at_>
> > To: compost_tea <compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wed, May 25, 2011 10:32 am
> > Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Vortex Brewer.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank Bobbie for your input. I have seen most of your videos and I wil=
l review
> > the link you have posted. Your work is largely what motivated me to go=
Vortex.
> > Not so much that I am into biodynamics but I like the elegance of the m=
achine.
> > And who doesn't like staring into the vortex, it is like watching fire.
> >
> > While I have spent a fair amount of time researching this by reviewing =
your
> > videos and reading Tim Wilson's page among others. But I approached th=
is
> > knowing that constructing Vortex brewer on a larger scale had its risks=
because
> > there is not much info relating to DO during the brew cycle. And yes =
I am
> > trying to brew AACT.
> >
> > Back to the design. I can move the stones up and down the up feed tube=
s very
> > easily. If I understand you correctly you are suggesting putting the =
stones
> > near the bottom. I have about 8 feet of upfeed to play with. It also =
appears
> > that I am getting slow flow and I want a better vortex. So any advise =
in terms
> > of increasing flow would be appreciated.
> >
> > The pump I purchased is called the ecoplus 7 and it produces about 7 CF=
M however
> > it is very hard to find any performance curve on this pump. I suspect i=
t looses
> > preformance with any back pressure. I think the sweetwater SL 170 or 1=
90
> > produce considerably more air at depth but they are expensive. If I go=
with Tim
> > Wilson's suggestion of .05 CFM of air per gallon of water I am looking =
at
> > needing at least 12 CFM
> >
> > thanks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Bobby Grimes <biodynamichawaii_at_>
> > To: "compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com" <compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 10:25:42 AM
> > Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Vortex Brewer.
> >
> >
> > Bobby here. Imagine you cut your upfeed tube in half, while the tank an=
d tubes
> > are full of water. The water will flow out very aggressively until it e=
qualizes.
> > Stones at the bottom slow the surface exchange. There can be no stagnan=
t water
> > in this tank. Please watch my brewer, 350 gallons, 10 min run time.
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjXFh_ICxic&feature=youtube_gdata_pl=
ayer
> >
> > Mahalo Bobby G
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On May 24, 2011, at 6:41 AM, "Stephen Steyn" <ssteyn_at_> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > >Wrong again. Bobby is right on the money. Don’t go to deep wit=
h the air source
> > >as all your doing is heating up your pump and reducing the amount of a=
ir it can
> > >put out due to backpressure. Convection will oxygenate all the fluid. =
No real
> > >point in going down more than a metre, just let the vortex tubes draw =
from near
> > >the bottom.
> > >Also be sure to keep your pump above the liquid level so that it doesn=
’t fill
> > >with water when you switch off.
> > >SS
> > >
> > >From:compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com [mailto:compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com] =
On Behalf
> > >Of soilfoodweb_at_
> > >Sent: 24 May 2011 16:40
> > >To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Vortex Brewer.
> > >
> > >
> > >Putting the air at the bottom of the tank is critical to get the water=
at the
> > >bottom of the tank to mix and not be stagnant.
> > >
> > >
> > >Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original message-----
> > >From: Bobby Grimes <biodynamichawaii_at_>
> > >To: "compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com" <compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com>
> > >Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 02:47:03 GMT+00:00
> > >Subject: Re: [compost_tea] Vortex Brewer.
> > >
> > >Will, I would put the stones in the upfeed tubes right where the tank =
goesfrom
> > >90 deg to your 45 or 60 deg angle. At the bottom the water flows of it=
own
> > >accord and then you just pick up where that slows down and stones/air =
lift it
> > >from there.
> > >I would use the Sweetwater SL170 or the next smaller linear air pump.=
> > >Bobby
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > >On May 23, 2011, at 12:20 PM, "Will Buck" <willbuck76_at_> wrote:
> > >
> > >>Hi, I am in the process of building a 240 gallon Vortex brewer.
> > >>
> > >>My first brew went anaerobic almost immediately. Clearly I have under=
sized the
> > >>air supply and while I would appreciate advise on which pump I should=
purchase
> > >>(I used an Eco7 that allegedly provides7 cfm, it appears that I need =
to at least
> > >>double that rate), my question is more about the properties of an air=
lift pumps
> > >>so I can maximize the amount of DO.
> > >>
> > >>My design is similar to Bobby Grimes. I purchased a cone bottom tank =
that I
> > >>mounted on a stand so the tank is about 4 feet off the ground (ideal=
for
> > >>gravity filling the spray rig). The manifold is attached to the base =
of the
> > >>stand and there are three 2 inch pipes that return water over the top=
of the
> > >>tank via air lift from a 17 inch air stones.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>My question is at what depth should I put the air stones in the pipes=
? If I put
> > >>the stones near the bottom of the pipe I thought this would be ideal =
because the
> > >>air bubbles would be in contact with the water for a longer period of=
time as
> > >>they rose up the pipe thus increasing DO. But of course the deeper th=
e air stone
> > >>the lower the performance of the air pump because the resistance pres=
sure is
> > >>greater. In other words, is there any rule of thumb regarding the dep=
th of the
> > >>air stone?
> > >>
> > >>This question becomes very important as I look at purchasing a new pu=
mp as
> > >>regenerative blowers loose performance very quickly the more pressure=
they are
> > >>working under.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>I would really appreciate any help or ideas, thanks in advance.
> >
>
Received on Fri May 27 2011 - 21:10:02 EDT