[compost_tea] Re: When to add amendments to the soil

From: Tim Wilson <thegoodjob_at_hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 14:11:22 -0000

I can pretty much guarantee that you are mistaken. I have the equipment for=
 the Melich II extraction and it tells me zero except for what is in soluti=
on. Do you really think that a process which costs researchers moocho $ [a=
 full spectrum of soil nutrients]is going cost 20 bucks?

Tim

--- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, EAReinheimer <erica_r_at_...> wrote:
>
> Hi Tim,
>
> There are a number of soil tests protocols available. I suggest Logan
> Labs because they perform a Melich 3 test, which is a ph 2 extraction. =
 
> This results in a reading of all the nutrients likely to ever become
> available. At $20, I think it is affordable.
>
> I hope my next soil test shows I will not have to add more rock powders
> next year. But, I will await the test results.
>
> I agree that after initial mineral balancing, biological activation
> makes alot of sense. I'm here to learn more about this.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Erica
>
>
>
> On 6/14/2011 10:59 AM, Tim Wilson wrote:
> >
> > Hi Erica,
> >
> > I have nothing against getting typical soil tests and there is some
> > merit to testing your soil, however most lab tests only reveal those
> > nutrients which are available (or in ionic form) but do not reveal
> > organic nutrients which are sequestered in organic matter/compost.
> > Testing your level of organic matter may be of greatest value.
> >
> > As Stephen has mentioned there is value in adding minerals (in the
> > form of rock/clay powders) to soil and compost but these are released
> > slowly by microbial and root acidifiers over a a period of time, which=
 
> > is (IMO) dictated by the needs of the plant in a biologically balanced=
 
> > soil.
> >
> > Besides the rock/clay powders which are available at pennies per cubic=
 
> > foot of use (extrapolated over the years they last), well made
> > (vermi)compost is indeed in my opinion all you really need to grow a
> > successful natural vegetable garden. This can be further supplemented
> > with applications of fish hydrolysates and ACT & EM fermentations to
> > boost the microbial population if the grower wishes (especially in
> > chemical conversion to organic) but I see no need to spend large sums
> > on prepared 'organic' fertilizers. If fertilizers are truly 'organic'
> > there should be extremely minimal danger of them leaching from
> > over-watering. If you look at the NPK rating of compost and certain
> > other organic amendments compared to chemical fertilizers you'll see
> > the numbers are much lower for the organics. This is because the
> > nutrients are sequestered and are just not testable with typical
> > procedures (& anti-leachable [sic]).
> >
> > Natural or organic growing should be cheap, especially considered over=
 
> > the years as your soil becomes more alive. There is really no need to
> > sock the prepared fertilizers to your garden year after year.
> >
> > This is really the crux of microbial based horticulture. There is no
> > affordable nutrient test that will show what is organically available
> > in your soil. Rather, the very affordable microscopic examination will=
 
> > reveal if there are the microbial players needed in your soli to
> > release nutrients. Again, this depends on some organic matter in the
> > soil to feed the microbes. The players you wish to see are
> > bacteria/archaea and the predators protozoa (flagellates & naked
> > amoebae) and/or bacterial feeding nematodes and a variety of fungal
> > hyphae including mychorhizal species as well as fungi imperfecti (that=
 
> > which predominantly grows in (vermi)compost).
> >
> > As Elaine and Jeff have so eloquently stated on numerous occasions, if=
 
> > one took a typical laboratory nutrient test from the floor of an old
> > growth forest, it would show pretty much diddly-squat, however the
> > growth which occurs over a single season out weighs by far many many
> > corn, soy or wheat fields. Why?
> >
> > After initial applications of some rock/clay powders, we produced all
> > of our own amendments/(vermi)compost on farm for commercial sales of
> > flowers and herbs and for our own food consumption.
> >
> > Salutations,
> > Tim
> >
> > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>, EAReinheimer <erica_r_at_> wrote:
> > >
> > > The first question is what nutrients does your soil require?
> > > Although lab tests are not always accurate, they are the best we have=
.
> > > I suggest Logan Labs.
> > >
> > > Then, you need to figure out what to do with the results. I suggest M=
.
> > > Astera's book, The Ideal Soil.
> > >
> > > You can add compost all you want, but if your compost lacks the
> > elements
> > > needed to balance your soil, you'll never get the nutrients you want.
> > >
> > > Then, add the amendments you need. The easiest way is usually the bes=
t
> > > - till in organic fertilizers before planting. Be careful of
> > > overwatering - you'll likely leach the amendments you have added.
> > >
> > > You really need to be careful when adding organic fertilizers - more =
is
> > > not better. You need to figure out exactly what you need, then add th=
e
> > > exact amounts calculated, then re-test next year. I love using foliag=
e
> > > kelp for micronutrients.
> > >
> > > IMHO the best bet on biologically activating your soil is after the
> > > minerals are already in place.
> > >
> > > My organic fertilizer bill runs about $400 per year for a 3000 sq ft
> > > vegetable garden. I am glad to pay it. It's a bargain. If you want
> > > the best nutrition from your vegetables, you need to be sure the
> > soil is
> > > the best it can be. Good food is healing.
> > >
> > > Erica
> > >
> > > On 6/4/2011 8:24 AM, Stephen Steyn wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Ian;
> > > >
> > > > P and K are not micro nutrients. Plants (and animals) require these
> > > > nutrient elements in larger quantities. As these elements are alrea=
dy
> > > > in your soils (in all likelihood), your biological additions should
> > > > make these more accessible to your plants over a period of time.
> > > > I.e.: Once your soils are biologically more active. Chicken manure =
is
> > > > a source you could consider, but if you're a composter, then you
> > > > should be composting it, or composting it and using it in your worm
> > > > bins. The other products can be added to compost too but many of th=
em
> > > > can for ease of work be added straight to the field. For example so=
ft
> > > > rock phosphate, although more soluble that rock phosphate, is still
> > > > not very soluble. So you would need a large quantity and adding it =
to
> > > > your compost would make your turner work so much harder for little
> > > > added benefit. Feather meal, bone meal, blood meal, fish waste
> > > > products are good sources of phosphates but are too expensive for
> > > > broad scale farming unless you're organic. Cotton seed and soya
> > > > oilcakes are way too expensive, and are best fed to your livestock
> > > > (Assuming you have) rather than tossed on the soil or compost heap =
--
> > > > unless you are making compost to be used as ACT where it may have
> > a place.
> > > >
> > > > Lime is a slow working amendment and is dependent on microbial acti=
on
> > > > as well as acidic conditions for release. Gypsum is a better calciu=
m
> > > > source given its solubility, but has no effect on pH if your soils
> > > > require that correction. It's usually used in soils that have highe=
r
> > > > pH. The reason it has no effect on pH is because it contains lots o=
f
> > > > Sulphur. So if your soils are low in S and Ca, then it's a good
> > > > choice. Also if you have a high Na problem, it will help to
> > correct that.
> > > >
> > > > Phosphates at planting to bind sandy soil is a new one on me. Maybe
> > > > you mean Magnesium. Magnesium should only be added to soils if you
> > > > need them as they tighten your soils and make working them more
> > difficult.
> > > >
> > > > Potassium is good during the season if your plant assay shows your
> > > > plants to be deficient. Then a foliar application is very effective=
.
> > > > Especially if you have high Na as the Na and K (Potassium) ions
> > are of
> > > > similar size (adjacent on the periodic table) and plants tend to ta=
ke
> > > > up Na instead of K even in high testing K soils if Na is high.
> > > >
> > > > As you can see, the subject is rather more complex than imagined at
> > > > first blush. Giving blanket recommendations based on the vague
> > > > information you have supplied would more than likely cause more
> > > > confusion than anything else. Your best bet is to use the services =
of
> > > > an agronomist or plant scientist to apply required amendments and
> > then
> > > > to discuss your biological ideas with them. There must be lots in
> > Zim,
> > > > or in SA.
> > > >
> > > > SS
> > > >
> > > > *From:*compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:%2Acompost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > [mailto:compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *RTS Friction -
> > > > Carruthers
> > > > *Sent:* 02 June 2011 13:49
> > > > *To:* ECO Compost tea
> > > > *Subject:* [compost_tea] When to add ammendments to the soil
> > > >
> > > > Hi all this is slightly off group topic but in the range of what we
> > > > generally try to emulate, there are so many well educated folk on
> > this
> > > > group so am taking the opportunity to glean some of your experience=
s.
> > > >
> > > > As most of us know, similarly to compost, vermicast is lacking in
> > > > phosphates & potassium (important additions required for optimum
> > plant
> > > > growth). For gardening when is the best time to add these trace
> > > > elements. I'm referring to amendments such as blood & bone meal, dr=
y
> > > > fish, rock phosphate, ash, chicken manure, feather meal, cotton
> > seed &
> > > > Soya cake etc.
> > > >
> > > > 1) Include steadily in the worm feed from the start
> > > >
> > > > 2) Mix into the VC prior to use/application
> > > >
> > > > 3) Mix in directly to the soil before VC application (how long befo=
re
> > > > planting)
> > > >
> > > > 4) Or apply weekly in the watering/top dressing
> > > >
> > > > At present I lime directly two weeks before planting, am led to
> > > > believe lime additions directly to Compost can lead to Ammonia (N)
> > > > losses. Presume this would have the same effect in VC, unless of
> > > > course the pH is low and adjustments need to be made. I add
> > phosphates
> > > > at planting to bind my sandy soil and reduce N losses.
> > > >
> > > > I add potassium half way through the growing period to boost
> > flowering
> > > > & fruiting. Am I on the right track?
> > > >
> > > > The conclusive answers to these questions I've failed to find on th=
e
> > > > net, look forward to any advice on this.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > > Ian C
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>




Received on Wed Jun 15 2011 - 10:16:53 EDT

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