Re: [compost_tea] Re: When to add amendments to the soil

From: EAReinheimer <erica_r_at_charter.net>
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 23:46:28 -0700

Hi Tim,

There are a number of soil tests protocols available. I suggest Logan
Labs because they perform a Melich 3 test, which is a ph 2 extraction.
This results in a reading of all the nutrients likely to ever become
available. At $20, I think it is affordable.

I hope my next soil test shows I will not have to add more rock powders
next year. But, I will await the test results.

I agree that after initial mineral balancing, biological activation
makes alot of sense. I'm here to learn more about this.

Thanks,

Erica



On 6/14/2011 10:59 AM, Tim Wilson wrote:
>
> Hi Erica,
>
> I have nothing against getting typical soil tests and there is some
> merit to testing your soil, however most lab tests only reveal those
> nutrients which are available (or in ionic form) but do not reveal
> organic nutrients which are sequestered in organic matter/compost.
> Testing your level of organic matter may be of greatest value.
>
> As Stephen has mentioned there is value in adding minerals (in the
> form of rock/clay powders) to soil and compost but these are released
> slowly by microbial and root acidifiers over a a period of time, which
> is (IMO) dictated by the needs of the plant in a biologically balanced
> soil.
>
> Besides the rock/clay powders which are available at pennies per cubic
> foot of use (extrapolated over the years they last), well made
> (vermi)compost is indeed in my opinion all you really need to grow a
> successful natural vegetable garden. This can be further supplemented
> with applications of fish hydrolysates and ACT & EM fermentations to
> boost the microbial population if the grower wishes (especially in
> chemical conversion to organic) but I see no need to spend large sums
> on prepared 'organic' fertilizers. If fertilizers are truly 'organic'
> there should be extremely minimal danger of them leaching from
> over-watering. If you look at the NPK rating of compost and certain
> other organic amendments compared to chemical fertilizers you'll see
> the numbers are much lower for the organics. This is because the
> nutrients are sequestered and are just not testable with typical
> procedures (& anti-leachable [sic]).
>
> Natural or organic growing should be cheap, especially considered over
> the years as your soil becomes more alive. There is really no need to
> sock the prepared fertilizers to your garden year after year.
>
> This is really the crux of microbial based horticulture. There is no
> affordable nutrient test that will show what is organically available
> in your soil. Rather, the very affordable microscopic examination will
> reveal if there are the microbial players needed in your soli to
> release nutrients. Again, this depends on some organic matter in the
> soil to feed the microbes. The players you wish to see are
> bacteria/archaea and the predators protozoa (flagellates & naked
> amoebae) and/or bacterial feeding nematodes and a variety of fungal
> hyphae including mychorhizal species as well as fungi imperfecti (that
> which predominantly grows in (vermi)compost).
>
> As Elaine and Jeff have so eloquently stated on numerous occasions, if
> one took a typical laboratory nutrient test from the floor of an old
> growth forest, it would show pretty much diddly-squat, however the
> growth which occurs over a single season out weighs by far many many
> corn, soy or wheat fields. Why?
>
> After initial applications of some rock/clay powders, we produced all
> of our own amendments/(vermi)compost on farm for commercial sales of
> flowers and herbs and for our own food consumption.
>
> Salutations,
> Tim
>
> --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>, EAReinheimer <erica_r_at_...> wrote:
> >
> > The first question is what nutrients does your soil require?
> > Although lab tests are not always accurate, they are the best we have.
> > I suggest Logan Labs.
> >
> > Then, you need to figure out what to do with the results. I suggest M.
> > Astera's book, The Ideal Soil.
> >
> > You can add compost all you want, but if your compost lacks the
> elements
> > needed to balance your soil, you'll never get the nutrients you want.
> >
> > Then, add the amendments you need. The easiest way is usually the best
> > - till in organic fertilizers before planting. Be careful of
> > overwatering - you'll likely leach the amendments you have added.
> >
> > You really need to be careful when adding organic fertilizers - more is
> > not better. You need to figure out exactly what you need, then add the
> > exact amounts calculated, then re-test next year. I love using foliage
> > kelp for micronutrients.
> >
> > IMHO the best bet on biologically activating your soil is after the
> > minerals are already in place.
> >
> > My organic fertilizer bill runs about $400 per year for a 3000 sq ft
> > vegetable garden. I am glad to pay it. It's a bargain. If you want
> > the best nutrition from your vegetables, you need to be sure the
> soil is
> > the best it can be. Good food is healing.
> >
> > Erica
> >
> > On 6/4/2011 8:24 AM, Stephen Steyn wrote:
> > >
> > > Ian;
> > >
> > > P and K are not micro nutrients. Plants (and animals) require these
> > > nutrient elements in larger quantities. As these elements are already
> > > in your soils (in all likelihood), your biological additions should
> > > make these more accessible to your plants over a period of time.
> > > I.e.: Once your soils are biologically more active. Chicken manure is
> > > a source you could consider, but if you're a composter, then you
> > > should be composting it, or composting it and using it in your worm
> > > bins. The other products can be added to compost too but many of them
> > > can for ease of work be added straight to the field. For example soft
> > > rock phosphate, although more soluble that rock phosphate, is still
> > > not very soluble. So you would need a large quantity and adding it to
> > > your compost would make your turner work so much harder for little
> > > added benefit. Feather meal, bone meal, blood meal, fish waste
> > > products are good sources of phosphates but are too expensive for
> > > broad scale farming unless you're organic. Cotton seed and soya
> > > oilcakes are way too expensive, and are best fed to your livestock
> > > (Assuming you have) rather than tossed on the soil or compost heap --
> > > unless you are making compost to be used as ACT where it may have
> a place.
> > >
> > > Lime is a slow working amendment and is dependent on microbial action
> > > as well as acidic conditions for release. Gypsum is a better calcium
> > > source given its solubility, but has no effect on pH if your soils
> > > require that correction. It's usually used in soils that have higher
> > > pH. The reason it has no effect on pH is because it contains lots of
> > > Sulphur. So if your soils are low in S and Ca, then it's a good
> > > choice. Also if you have a high Na problem, it will help to
> correct that.
> > >
> > > Phosphates at planting to bind sandy soil is a new one on me. Maybe
> > > you mean Magnesium. Magnesium should only be added to soils if you
> > > need them as they tighten your soils and make working them more
> difficult.
> > >
> > > Potassium is good during the season if your plant assay shows your
> > > plants to be deficient. Then a foliar application is very effective.
> > > Especially if you have high Na as the Na and K (Potassium) ions
> are of
> > > similar size (adjacent on the periodic table) and plants tend to take
> > > up Na instead of K even in high testing K soils if Na is high.
> > >
> > > As you can see, the subject is rather more complex than imagined at
> > > first blush. Giving blanket recommendations based on the vague
> > > information you have supplied would more than likely cause more
> > > confusion than anything else. Your best bet is to use the services of
> > > an agronomist or plant scientist to apply required amendments and
> then
> > > to discuss your biological ideas with them. There must be lots in
> Zim,
> > > or in SA.
> > >
> > > SS
> > >
> > > *From:*compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:%2Acompost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > [mailto:compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *RTS Friction -
> > > Carruthers
> > > *Sent:* 02 June 2011 13:49
> > > *To:* ECO Compost tea
> > > *Subject:* [compost_tea] When to add ammendments to the soil
> > >
> > > Hi all this is slightly off group topic but in the range of what we
> > > generally try to emulate, there are so many well educated folk on
> this
> > > group so am taking the opportunity to glean some of your experiences.
> > >
> > > As most of us know, similarly to compost, vermicast is lacking in
> > > phosphates & potassium (important additions required for optimum
> plant
> > > growth). For gardening when is the best time to add these trace
> > > elements. I'm referring to amendments such as blood & bone meal, dry
> > > fish, rock phosphate, ash, chicken manure, feather meal, cotton
> seed &
> > > Soya cake etc.
> > >
> > > 1) Include steadily in the worm feed from the start
> > >
> > > 2) Mix into the VC prior to use/application
> > >
> > > 3) Mix in directly to the soil before VC application (how long before
> > > planting)
> > >
> > > 4) Or apply weekly in the watering/top dressing
> > >
> > > At present I lime directly two weeks before planting, am led to
> > > believe lime additions directly to Compost can lead to Ammonia (N)
> > > losses. Presume this would have the same effect in VC, unless of
> > > course the pH is low and adjustments need to be made. I add
> phosphates
> > > at planting to bind my sandy soil and reduce N losses.
> > >
> > > I add potassium half way through the growing period to boost
> flowering
> > > & fruiting. Am I on the right track?
> > >
> > > The conclusive answers to these questions I've failed to find on the
> > > net, look forward to any advice on this.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Ian C
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>


Received on Wed Jun 15 2011 - 09:56:55 EDT

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