[compost_tea] Re: When to add amendments to the soil

From: Tim Wilson <thegoodjob_at_hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 17:14:15 -0000

Hi Stephen;

That is basically my take on my limited exposure to Albrecht's theories, th=
at it is more the minerals, especially calcium that are of importance rathe=
r than the adjusting of soil pH. I believe I read that he said it is more a=
 factor of biological activity that nutrients are taken up (which is why pl=
ants grow in acidic soil).

The article about pH states for one:
"I would prefer to lower the
pH levels over a period of
a couple years so I could
retest and monitor the
progress. These levels
are based on a 7-inch soil
layer so changing the pH
level deeper would require
a proportional increase.
For example,
lowering a loam from a
pH of 8 to 6.5 on a 10-
inch layer would take
about 2150#. Stratification
of the sulfur could
have much higher consequences
than lime, so be
sure to incorporate thoroughly
to the target
depth."

Is this what Albrecht was about? You probably know better than I.

My take is that I believe nutrient uptake and therefore pH is a factor of t=
he ratios of bacteria/archaea to fungi as well as the acids (citric) excret=
ed by roots.

I guess if a growing are needed to be made more acidic, I'd sooner try to e=
ncourage fungal growth (mushrooms?).

One thing in the article that I agree with is if you have a high rate of or=
ganic matter then pH is much less of (or not) a factor.

Tim

--- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Steyn" <ssteyn_at_...> wrote:
>
> Tim:
>
> The article encapsulates his theory very well I think.
>
> You must bear in mind that Albrecht did his work in the 1930's and was a
> very controversial figure at the time - going against the conventional
> wisdom with his ideas on calcium and cation balance. Many of today's soil=
s
> scientists were not given the opportunity to understand the Albrecht work
> during their studies. Albrecht was an outcast amongst his peers and
> eventually was forced out of the University of Missouri. Today there are
> three systems of soil "balancing" in use in the USA (for example), each
> coinciding with different regions of soil humus percentage. The beauty of
> the Albrecht system is that it is universally applicable.
>
> Also, in practical terms, there is little difference between the
> recommendations made when using the Albrecht system and the other local
> systems. So you may wonder what the fuss is about. They give the same
> answer. The problem came when Albrecht proved that he could grow good cro=
ps
> even in acid soils - as long as Ca was adequate. He had thrown down the
> gauntlet and academia took revenge in their own fashion. By deriding him =
and
> effectively excluding him from their ranks. If it were not for people lik=
e
> Charles Walters of Acres USA, he would still be unknown.
>
> About glaciers. No such thing in darkest Africa. Our rocks were scoured b=
y
> acids and biology as well as the heat of the sun. Your story about the
> marauding buffalo herds is probably correct. Nutrients were returned to t=
he
> soils when they died. Their hooves churned and loosened the soils and
> incorporated the seeds in the topsoil.
>
> SS
>
>
>
> From: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com [mailto:compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Tim Wilson
> Sent: 18 June 2011 19:46
> To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [compost_tea] Re: When to add amendments to the soil
>
>
>
>
>
> From the lips of Albrecht;
>
> http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/010143albpap/pH.balanced%20nutri=
tio
> n/pH.bal.nut.htm
>
> Here is the article which (to me) does not really seem to follow that
> philosophy (but its just an article)
>
> http://www.loganlabs.com/doc/SoilProbe201101.pdf
>
> In something else I read of Albrecht's that I really agree with is that
> modern North American agriculture does not fully consider the importance =
of
> grasses and legumes (semi-wild).
>
> I think that on our old farm we had the level of success we did because w=
e
> allowed the established turf to remain with her deep roots, rather that
> tilling everything up every few years [admittedly partially due to
> laziness], like the neighbors. Instead we just tried techniques to improv=
e
> the health of the turf by hacking on weeds and dropping seed of desired
> species, harrowing and burning once in a while.
>
> Do these deep roots mine nutrients? What is the reason the prairie grasse=
s
> maintained for so many thousands of years? Certainly huge herds of ungula=
tes
> grazed many areas bare; as bare as taking a crop off. I wonder.
>
> Stephen; you likely have similar history where you are. Did you have
> marauding glaciers to blame?
>
> Tim
>
> --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>=
 ,
> "Stephen Steyn" <ssteyn_at_> wrote:
> >
> > For what it's worth, and I promise I won't bore you all who've heard it
> > before again, here is the Albrecht take on pH.
> >
> > You can largely disregard pH. Its only real use is to signal that
> something
> > is out of kilter. It's like temperature in humans. If someone has a
> > temperature, it's not the temperature that's the problem (otherwise you
> > would give them a glass of cold water to cure them), rather it's a sign=
al
> > that something is wrong. Often this is simply an infection that your bo=
dy
> is
> > trying to ward off, other times it may signal some other type of stress
> > event.
> >
> > Now in soils pH is a signal that you have too many H+ ions making up yo=
ur
> > Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC). H+ ions are swopped for nutrient cation=
s
> by
> > the plant during its growth. This can be any of the cations, Ca, Mg, Na=
,
> or
> > K or even some of the trace element cations. In general though plants
> > require a lot of calcium so usually it's this element that is lacking.=
 
> >
> > Albrecht recognised that the major cations had to be in a certain ratio=
 to
> > one another for plants to grow optimally. That is his major contributio=
n
> to
> > agriculture.
> >
> > Having too many H+ ions present means they're taking the place of nutri=
ent
> > cations. (Yes, H+ is a cation but not a nutrient cation). Adding lime
> > (Calcitic or Dolomitic) is a way to correct this imbalance. A ton of li=
me
> > will contribute about 5kg Ca to your soil solution when you apply it. I=
t's
> > not very soluble, usually taking about three years to solubilise. The r=
ate
> > is affected by the acidity of the soil, the fineness of the lime and th=
e
> > microbial activity in the soil, as well as how well it is incorporated =
in
> > the soil. Gypsum is another source of Calcium. More soluble, with 180kg=
 of
> > Sulphur too per ton of gypsum as a bonus, and with the ability to
> > precipitate Na from your soils under the right conditions. The sulphur =
in
> > the gypsum is very acidifying and in effect counteracts the neutralisin=
g
> > effect of the added Ca.
> >
> > Having a soil that is biologically active will tend to neutralise the p=
H,
> > and can buffer it effectively against the acidifying effect of the plan=
ts
> > growing in it. If the plant material is being removed by harvesting or
> > grazing, you are essentially removing nutrient elements from your soil.=
 If
> > the plants are not being removed but are allowed to be decomposed in th=
e
> > soil, the nutrients will be held in the humus. This is an excellent way=
 to
> > store nutrients for a following crop.
> >
> > SS
> >
> >
> >
> > From: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com=
>
> [mailto:compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com=
> ]
> On
> > Behalf Of Tim Wilson
> > Sent: 17 June 2011 20:00
> > To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>=
 
> > Subject: [compost_tea] Re: When to add amendments to the soil
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The only guts info I could find quickly was their newsletter with the
> > articles about pH manipulation. Need to follow up before I can really s=
ay
> > anything besides (??). In the farming community I lived in before I
> watched
> > the locals chasing pH year after year following recommendations from th=
e
> > lab. It seemed to no avail, as we got equal to better yields completely
> > ignoring pH and all manor of 'chemical soil tests' but (???)
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.co=
m>
> <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> > "steved3602002" <steved_at_> wrote:
> > >
> > > Logan Labs is an offshoot of Brookside Labs
> > > and both are based on the classic Albrecht
> > > soil test which is geared to mineral balance
> > > for soil structure and optimal microbial
> > > habitat, taking care of plant fertility,
> > > ultimately aiming for nutritionally balanced
> > > feeds and foods.
> > >
> > > Albrecht was a soil microbiologist, you know.
> > >
> > > Steve Diver
> > >
> >
>




Received on Sun Jun 19 2011 - 16:25:21 EDT

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