Evan and Tim,
This discussion jumps around quite a bit, but I wanted to chime in on a few=
things.
First of all, I think the importance of testing is largely understated and =
many commercial manufacturers of brewers don't do proper testing before sel=
ling their brewers or making claims as to efficacy. One SFI test is not su=
fficient in my opinion, but is a good starting point. Successive microscop=
e work is better, even if it is qualitative in nature.
Ethan, you talk about "true diversity" as something we cannot see or unders=
tand without DNA testing. I have to agree with Tim here in that direct mic=
roscopy is really the most effective methodology we have for evaluating mic=
robial teas and extracts at this time. DNA testing would really not give m=
e much more information and is not realistic, as each brew would be differe=
nt, and frankly I don't know what all the different species and sub-species=
do in the rhizosphere anyway.
However, I can tell the difference better a ciliate and a flagellate. I ca=
n see that they're both present in my tea and in good ratios. I can see di=
fferent morphology in the bacteria and whether it's motile or forming large=
areas on the slide of biomass. This is the diversity I'm talking about. =
It gives me data that I can then use to determine the quality of my product=
.
Every brew I've ever taken for longer than a few days lacks this diversity.=
DNA testing is not going to show anything surprising in this regard. If =
I'm unable to find fungal hyphae through direct microscopy, it's not going =
to magically show up through other means of testing.
Our solution to this issue was to have hydro shops brew 1-2 times a week, a=
nd customers just knew that if they wanted ACT, they would have to come in =
on a Weds or a Saturday and those would be the days it's available for purc=
hase.
Some manufacturers claim you can refrigerate their tea or store it for a pe=
riod of time. I find this irresponsible and have yet to see anyone provide=
data to show otherwise. And personally, I don't see how they ever could. =
With a properly made ACT, you've created an unsustainable amount of aerobi=
c microbes at it's peak (avg 24-36 hours). I don't believe there is a way =
to maintain the diversity and concentrations of organisms over time.
As Tim stated, it would be relatively easy to test Evan's theory about plan=
t available nutrients being more accessible in longer brews by just testing=
for nutrients say at 24 hours and again a week later from the same liquid,=
without any additions.
I guess my point is that let's not throw out direct microscopy as the stand=
ard to evaluating teas, just because it doesn't answer every question we mi=
ght have. Spend enough time behind a microscope and I think you'll find th=
at you can learn quite a bit about how your teas change over time. For ins=
tance, I can make a bacterial dominated tea, fungal dominated tea, or flage=
llate dominated tea all from the same material, simply by adjusting the len=
gth of the brewing cycle.
In order for out industry to continue to grow and gain legitimacy, I think =
it's important that we move away from testimonials, quasi-science, and unsu=
bstantiated claims, and towards direct microscopy and methodology that can =
be replicated in a variety of environments and with different brewers.
I think these discussions are beneficial as well. There's a lot of differe=
nt knowledge and experience floating around in here and I'm glad to be a pa=
rt of the group!
Cheers,
Tad
--- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "evanfolds" <evan_at_...> wrote:
>
> Tim, I'm not trying to overcomplicate compost tea. I'm simply trying to s=
peak to its complexity. The reality is that the only way to illustrate actu=
al diversity is through DNA testing. I work loosely with a local lab who se=
pcializes in E.coli testing. We live at the end of the Caope Fear river in =
NC and there are more hogs than people in this state. They track contaminat=
ion sources to outbreaks in water ways and are able to reverse engineer whe=
re it comes from. Pretty cool. Of course, they cannot tell this without DNA=
testing. That's my point. Not that you cannot get valuable information out=
what you are doing. That is not my point.
>
> Bottom line, if we assume we can get what we need from a visual observati=
on we end up like Justis von Liebig (the man who gave us the NPK and crippl=
ed agriculture forever) identifying "essential nutrients" from an ashing ex=
periment. After all, he went to his grave regretting that:
>
> "Unfortunately the true beauty of agriculture with its intellectual and a=
nimating principles is almost unrecognized. The art of agriculture will be =
lost when ignorant, unscientific and short sighted teachers persuade the fa=
rmer to put all his hopes in universal remedies, which don't exist in natur=
e. Following their advice, bedazzled by an ephemeral success, the farmer wi=
ll forget the soil and lose sight of his inherent values and their influenc=
e." Source: Fauna in soil ecosystems, by Gero Benckiser (p 6)
>
> Now I'm not trying to compare you to von Liebig, or suggest that you are =
ignorant or unscientific, simply trying to illustrate the power and folly o=
f humanity when they attempt to define the natural world strictly through v=
isual and quantifiable means.
>
> evan
> www.VortexBrewer.com
>
>
> --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "Tim Wilson" <thegoodjob_at_> wrote:
> >
> > Since it is Sunday http://www.microbeorganics.com/index.html#My_DVD
> >
> > Evan; I really believe you are way over complicating the microbial pers=
pective as it relates to compost tea and extract. Of course you need nothin=
g like DNA testing to see the diversity I described.
> >
> > There is absolutely no labelling required whatsoever to say that a devi=
ce is capable of extracting and multiplying bacteria/archaea, protozoa and =
fungal hyphae. Where does that come from?
> >
> > PGPR = plant growth promoting rhizobacteria, which is what you have b=
een describing. They are all over the market; some good, some not so good. =
They definitely are restricted to what they say on the label.
> >
> > I'll read your citation concerning humus creation re: jelly pockets but=
I will try to post a relatively scientific paper in the files section here=
which was an eye opener for me on humus. Humus still remains undefined. [E=
ven though some cat in New Mexico claims to create his own]
> >
> > Glad to hear the good DO2 rate. I suppose there is great potential for =
various nutrients uptaken in natural growing to be non-detectable but for n=
ow I'm going to concern myself with those that can be for production of dat=
a if possible. My data, which you will discover by seeing my webpage consis=
ts of video recordings of microbial populations.
> >
> > Adios Amigo,
> > Tim
> >
> > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "evanfolds" <evan_at_> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks for your response, Tim. I have no seen your DVD, how can I?
> > >
> > > by the way, just took a DO reading from the Vortex Brewer on a perpet=
ual brew that's been spinning for over a month and it was 7.8.
> > >
> > > Regardless of how informed one is in recognizing biological diversity=
, true diversity cannot be attained without DNA testing. That is not to say=
that it is not valuable to have scope experience in identifying different =
categories of microbe, simply a statement of the obvious truth.
> > >
> > > For instance, we get people confused about our biological products al=
l the time because we do not claim microbes on the label. We do this for tw=
o reasons. One, we don't propose we can know all the microbes in our biolog=
icals. They are created on a farm that has been in the same family for 350 =
years and have a complexity we cannot know. Second, according to labeling l=
aws, only certain strains (Bacillus, mycchorizae) are accepted. This leaves=
people to believe they are the only ones that are important. Some on this =
list may take issue with that, but you should deal with the general public =
every day. Most people simply believe what they are told. It's the same whe=
n 99% of this country believes Miracle Gro is sufficient to maintian health=
in an ecosystem. Most of the time they don't even know what an ecosystem i=
s, they think microbes are the reason for hand sanitizer. Not trying to be =
ugly, its simply the truth. Not being able to claim biological existence on=
a label cripples people's ability to know about them. This has happened wi=
th "essential nutrients" with plants. Plants can use 50-60 elements directl=
y or indirectly (microbes all of them as co-factors), yet the "experts" spe=
ak of 17 at the most.
> > >
> > > It is my belief that the onset of degenerative disease in modern soci=
ety is a direct (with no smoking gun) result of growing plants (and microbe=
s) for what they have to have, not what they want, or, better, what we need=
from them.
> > >
> > > Most importantly, however, assuming we can identify microbes, is what=
function those microbes perform. We know very little about this considerin=
g estimates that only 1/4 of the fungal species have even been identified, =
for example.
> > >
> > > Potential NEW microbe species: http://www.npr.org/2011/05/12/13620787=
4/a-new-somewhat-moldy-branch-on-the-tree-of-life
> > >
> > > Further, in regards to biological strength and ability, we are both h=
umans. You may be a better soccer player (N cycler) and I may be a better b=
asketball player (digester), but one cannot tell this by looking at us unde=
r a microscope. If you purchase a microbe grown in a Petri dish with no nat=
ural stress or predator, the organism is weaker. This is another simple sta=
tement of truth. They lack life experience and have not worked with other o=
rganisms. These are not tiny programed machines, they are living life forms=
.
> > >
> > > What are "PGPR products"?
> > >
> > > There is even thought that certain species of microbes, outside of in=
dividual ability, are "smarter" than others. Check out this article on a "s=
mart community" or vortex bacteria ;)
> > >
> > > http://www.dynamicyouth.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=art=
icle&id=1748:social-iq-score-of-bacteria&catid=79:research&Itemid=89
> > >
> > > It would make sense to most, I imagine, that much of the benefit from=
microbes comes in their complexity (diversity). Meaning that often it is t=
he assistance of a microbe that has no interaction with a plant directly to=
wards a microbe that does, that accounts for the incalculable work done by =
microbes for plants and Nature. To use a basketball analogy, what if the st=
arter cant come out of the game and there's no 6th man? Further, what if th=
ere is no trainer or assistant coach?
> > >
> > > Consider a plant, we can grow them with ionic minerals, but we all kn=
ow the benefit of having a microbe help.
> > >
> > > Consider a human, there are microbes in our gut that use Yttrium to h=
elp us digest our food. Yttrium has no direct use by humans that we know, b=
ut if it is not found in our diet, and it is not found in most people's any=
more, microbes cannot cycle Aluminium in our intestines. This has been impl=
icated in Alzheimers and other degenerative diseases, especially with peopl=
e eating so much Al in pharmaceuticals and using it in their underarms. Thi=
s is the importance of using ALL elements as tools for microbes. Read "Mine=
rals for the Genetic Code", by Dr. Olree.
> > >
> > > Nature barely ever works directly. Therefore we don't know as much as=
we think we know. Given this innate complexity, how is a human supposed to=
know how to create a proper biological inoculant? What if the coach (human=
) puts the wrong players (microbes) on the court? Five point guards can't b=
eat a well balanced basketball team, and the center must get the assist fro=
m the point guard to dunk the ball.
> > >
> > > To put it another way, to realize the importance of biological teamwo=
rk, what if a trapeze artist picked someone out of the crowd to catch her o=
n her pass?
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, due to the dynamic nature of what we are discussing, t=
here may be no way to prove the lab grown weakness hypothesis directly exce=
pt out of subjective experience and intuition. We can't set up an obstacle =
course and let them run through it. :) This, of course, is what prevents pe=
ople from gravitating towards concepts like BioDynamics due to us being tra=
ined to expect hard quantifiable data to even consider entertaining potenti=
al truths.
> > >
> > > Arguably, the most important aspects of living systems are unmeasurea=
ble and unobservable.
> > >
> > > The scientific method, while allowing us to advance as a species, cri=
pples us. It says that a hypothesis can only be a theory and then a law if =
it happens the same way every time. Remember that Nature does not work this=
way, by design. She works in chaos and spirals. The consepquence of the an=
thropocetric concept of the scientific method, again, while not worthless, =
is making "laws" for humans that do not jive with the laws of Nature. In fa=
ct, they are counterintuitive. Newton pondered gravity by getting hit in th=
e head by the apple, or so the fable goes, but we spend no time discussing =
how the apple got up there to begin with.
> > >
> > > Without acknowledging the unobservable and unmeasureable life force i=
nvolved in natural systems, we are only considering half the story.
> > >
> > > In regards to the shredder part, yes, that is what I'm referring too.=
Read Podolinski for his descriptions of humus. He describes it as the guts=
of microbes that form jelly pockets in the soil. becasue "plant food" is c=
ontained in certian zoes in the soil the plant can choose to drink or eat a=
t will depending on if the sun is out or teh time of day. When using solubl=
e artificial nutrients there is no jelly pocket, "food" is found throughout=
teh soil and the drinking roots of plants cannot help but eat as well. Thi=
s accounts for initial higher yields, but is actually only obesity. His des=
cription resonates with me.
> > >
> > > You should also read Steiner on the concept of "You are what you eat"=
. It's easy to think of microbes cycling nutrients through their poop, but =
we again can easily oversimplify things. Some may not see the connection he=
re, but "nutrition" is a relative thing from a non-materialistic perspectiv=
e:
http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/NutHealth/19240731p01.html
> > >
> > > In the end, organic matter does not just melt. I consider microbes to=
be responsible for ALL end results in healthy soil. Just as they are for u=
s in our gut, or worms and bacteria in theirs, or termites and fungi in the=
irs. This is why microbes are so important. They help plants, but most impo=
rtantly they make plant food in the cycle of life.
> > >
> > > If plant food is not kept in solution after being created, where does=
it go? I too believe that this can be documented, but it will not be direc=
tly, I presume. There is a disconnect between articially created nutrients =
and natural. For instance, I can spray a 2000ppm solution of Earth TOnic on=
a plant and it will love it. If I do the same with an artificial nutrient =
it will murder the plant. Nature has a way of balancing things that a human=
can never know. We must be humble to this.
> > >
> > > We have people using natural nutrients in our retail store all the ti=
me with an NPK that is 2-1-1 who get MUCH better results than when they uis=
ed an artifical nutrient with a 15-10-10. I'm sure everyone is aware on som=
e level the difference of nutrition from Nature versus a factory.
> > >
> > > I'm curious to hear the thoughts of the lab we find to this work. Are=
tehy set up to assay ionic minerals or biological plant food. I suspect th=
ere is a difference, and maybe one we cannot detect readily.
> > >
> > > Let me know on that DVD..
> > >
> > > evan
> > > www.VortexBrewer.com
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "Tim Wilson" <thegoodjob_at_> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Evan;
> > > >
> > > > Two things jumped at me from your post;
> > > >
> > > > 1/ Diversity; The type of diversity which is qualified/quantified b=
y DNA testing is the species (genera?) difference in bacteria, archaea and =
fungi genera. The type of diversity I am talking about is bacteria/archaea,=
flagellates, naked amoebae, testate amoebae, ciliates, rotifers, fungal hy=
phae. These are easily discerned microscopically; as simple as looking outd=
oors to see the types of animals and birds in your backyard. There are also=
differences which can be discerned inter species. If I see entirely differ=
ent shapes and motility within bacterial/archaeal species I can assume they=
are of different genera but this is not hard and fast with this group. Lik=
ewise with fungal hyphae if they grow differently, produce different spores=
and throw down septate at different distances, have different membranes, e=
tc. I can conclude they are of different genera. With flagellates, ciliates=
and amoebae it is quite simple to discern different genera visually. And y=
ou don't need to know their name to know they are different. That is the di=
versity I'm looking for in a compost tea, soil or compost sample. Have you =
seen my DVD?
> > > >
> > > > 2/ Shredders;
> > > > You mention shredders as providers of plant food and I believe humu=
s creators if I'm not mistaken. I presume you are speaking of the predators=
like protozoa and nematodes. My understanding of how nutrients are cycled =
to plants microbially is protozoa consume bacteria/archaea and utilize only=
30 to 40 percent of the energy derived for sustenance. What they excrete i=
s the 60 to 70 percent in bioavailable (ionic form - soluble) nutrients whi=
ch can be directly uptaken by plants.
> > > >
> > > > I believe (as far as I know today) that the creation of humus is so=
mewhat still in unknown territory but I had not heard the hypothesis of it =
being formed from the guts of bacteria (microbes). There are two (that I kn=
ow of) schools of thought on what comprises humus as to whether the organic=
material is no longer recognizeable and it is a unique molecular structure=
(humic polymers or covalent bonded) OR where some aspect of the originatin=
g organic matter is detectable and it forms a molecular aggregate structure=
(supramolecular aggregates or non-covalent bonded).
> > > >
> > > > As we have discussed, it is my thought that if a compost tea would =
'hold' nutrients in solution as a factor of predation having taken place, t=
hen it would seem a perpetual brew would make better sense. If these nutrie=
nts are in solution, it should be relatively easy to detect them through 'd=
ependable' laboratory testing. I do believe the testing would need to be do=
ne without any extraction processes but that is my uneducated hypothesis.
> > > >
> > > > The specialty or talented bacteria which you mentioned may have som=
eplace in compost tea but presently I see them more as something which may =
be specifically fermented or purchased ready to use, as is much the case wi=
th the PGPR products.
> > > >
> > > > Salutations,
> > > > Tim
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "evanfolds" <evan_at_> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry for the product plug, Tim, hard to get the point across oth=
erwise.
> > > > >
> > > > > We have tracked DO in the past with a perpetual brew, but nothing=
I can regurgitate. I have tasked my guys to track that with a fresh brew s=
tarting the beginning of next week along with what we are adding daily for =
reference and will report back.
> > > > >
> > > > > I will admit that the quality of the microbe, and possibly the di=
versity, is compromised when brewing perpetually. Who's determining ACTUAL =
diversity anyway wihtout DNA testing? However, that is of relative importan=
ce. Put it this way, ANY living solution is better than none as long as it =
is not aerobic. In other words, when people take a perpetual brew from a ga=
rden store they cannot buy the equivalant from a shelf.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, I realize that this is a compost tea forum mostly intereste=
d in the biological aspects of living solutions, and rightfully so. But the=
aspect of compsot tea that gets perpetually glossed over is the fact that =
microbes make perfect plant food. What I think is happening over time is th=
at the longer you brew the more plant food you have.
> > > > >
> > > > > Tim, you reference that you think ciliates are nutrient cyclers, =
and I would agree. I would argue that ALL microbes are nutrient cyclers in =
their own right. The shredders spill the guts of bacteria and create humus,=
or plant food. Arguably, the more shredding you have going on, the more pl=
ant food you have. The people in the testimonial video may simply be reacti=
ng to the perfect plant food beenfit, not the biological influence. I like =
to think the living microbes have a direct influence, but how can one know =
for sure?
> > > > >
> > > > > It all depends on the application. For instance, an indoor grower=
who is planning on throwing his potting soil away in 3-4 months is not nec=
essarily trying to establish a soil food web in his container. His interest=
s may be more on the plant food emphasis, therefore perpetual brewing makes=
more sense to him. We have many growers who keep perpetual brews going and=
use on every watering.
> > > > >
> > > > > In another context there may be a farmer who is interested in the=
long term biological balance in his soil who may benefit more by batch bre=
wing and ensuring the sanctity of the microbes involved.
> > > > >
> > > > > The point is, we don't know for sure.
> > > > >
> > > > > The future is defining applications and the need for certain micr=
obes in those applications, then establishing food sources and brew times t=
hat encourage those microbes needed most effectively. This research has not=
been done, and is barely even discussed.
> > > > >
> > > > > Without a baseline of what soil "should" be, we're pretty much sh=
ooting in the dark. However, there are certain applications that warrant pr=
ogress. I saw the other day a reference from a Australian farmer who discov=
ered that there is actually a bacteria responsible for frost damage in plan=
ts. In other words, its not the temperature, but an excretion on the leaf s=
urface by a certain microbe that makes the plants vulnerable and crstalizes=
the moisture. What if we could determine a predator for this microbe and u=
se a food source and brew time that encouraged it? The mind races at the po=
tetnial applications, but this is the future.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are also variables involved that throw a monkey wrench into=
these ideas. For example, the strength of microbes. We discuss microbes as=
if they are all the same, but this is not true. Keep in mind that you cann=
ot see biological strength under a microscope. In other words, a lab analys=
is can only get you so far in regards to how the specific microbe influence=
s growing plants. I don't know of any labs connecting biological assays and=
sourcews with plant growth...and this is the most important thing!
> > > > >
> > > > > One way to think about this is biodynamics. In the biodynamic met=
hod compost is not turned. In other words, the microbe is challenged to ope=
rate in an aerobic/anaerobic capacity, as Dr. Ingham referenced in a post a=
couple of weeks ago. The result is that the mcirobes are challenged more, =
they develop more life experince, so to speak. If you coddle your children =
are they going to end up as accomplsihed adults? You get the idea.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, food for thought. When we get some results I'll report ba=
ck...peace
> > > > >
> > > > > evan
> > > > > www.VortexBrewer.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "Tim Wilson" <thegoodjob_at_> wr=
ote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I was hoping you would speak up on this subject Evan. I'd be mo=
re interested in the tracked dissolved oxygen than the testimonials (BTW I =
don't know if anyone told you advertising is on Sundays only) I do believe =
that a semi-perpetual brew is possible but do not know whether it is more b=
eneficial than starting a brew over. Some of the longterm brews I've carrie=
d out have wound up with a predominence of ciliates and/or fungal hyphae qu=
ite devoured by bacteria.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you have tracked the microbial development and/or DO2 I'd be=
interested in hearing/seeing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I was asked recently to put on a seminar for a college growing =
program and they did not have a brewer. I threw together a 5 gallon airlift=
brewer to donate, using the 2 CFM Hailea. Because of time constraints we s=
tarted the brew at my place so it would be on about 36 hours for the semina=
r. I checked the brew at 11 hours and it blew my mind. It was complete. Bac=
teria/archaea, flagellates & mega fungal hyphae. The DO2 was 8.2 ppm. Next =
morning shut it down, drove about 2 hours, then started the brew back up ag=
ain. I did not take the O2 meter but samples under the scope at 36 to 40 ho=
urs were beginning to show chewed down hyphae and quite an abundance of cil=
iates and less flagellates. Now does that mean the ACT is not as functional=
? I don't know. But it was on its way to being overun by ciliates. We've be=
en told by some in the field, this is a bad sign. I believe ciliates cycle =
nutrients but I think the lack of diversity is not great.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On an upnote; What an incredible little brewer I stumbled on.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Evan; I'm working on the testing thing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Salutations,
> > > > > > Tim
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "evanfolds" <evan_at_> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We have been brewing perpetually for many years using a Vorte=
x Brewer. Here is a video of many happy customers using compost tea created=
in this way:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fNWyTqUUN0
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > it is important to refresh teh solution at least once per wee=
k. In other words, if you are distributing 10 gallons a wekk using a 60 gal=
lon unit the inputs compound on themselves. We suggest adding a certian amo=
utn of input for every 5 gallons of water added to the unit. It works great=
.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This not only makes sense on a convenience level, but also on=
a "plant food" level. We all know microbes make perfect plant food. When a=
ttaining a shredder dominance after 48 hours it makes sense that this proce=
ss creates more plant food the longer the tea is brewed. After all, the gut=
s of bacteria make up humus, i.e. plant food.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We are not suggesting that this provides a replicable biologi=
cal product, only that it is a living solution that cannot be purtchased fr=
om a shelf. Depending on the application, the plant food aspect may be more=
important than the biological aspect. Consider container gardening or indo=
or gardening where the goal is not necessarily to establish an operating so=
il food web.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We have distributed compost tea from a Vortex Brewer to every=
gardening situation imagineable over the last 5-6 years, sometimes with a =
brew that has been spinning for up to 6 months without cleaning the unit, a=
nd never have we had a negative response.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would not receommend using other compost tea units in this =
capacity, not because it will not work, but becasue I have not personally t=
ested it. There is still MUCH work to do to determine the potentials of com=
post tea, but perpetual brewing sure makes sense from our perspective.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Evan
> > > > > > > www.VortexBrewer.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "RTS Friction - Carruther=
s" <home_at_> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It would seem you run the risk of outside contamination if =
you continue to use your base stock, much the same as using your yeast agai=
n and again in beer making. Look forward to other comments good question.
> > > > > > > > If you trail through the archives you will see the discussi=
ons on adding extra food/nutrient, many members believe it is not necessary=
. Thanks to good advice I now rely on the release of nutrients in the compo=
st/vermicast to multiply the MO's, I do add a little barley malt if using t=
he tea for getting the compost heap going or doing a lawn drench.
> > > > > > > > Ian C
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: Paul M Moriarty To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 9:03 PM
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > New guy here. I've searched through the archives and have=
n't found an answer to my question. Hopefully, one of you can help me out.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Is it possible to just keep a batch of tea going by, drai=
ning off 1/2 the tea and replacing with water & food as one would with a so=
urdough starter, or is it necessary to replenish the castings as well? As a=
n urban farmer, I'm trying to get as much mileage out of my castings as pos=
sible.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Received on Fri Jul 01 2011 - 10:52:30 EDT