Evan,
To me the main benefits of biodynamic farming are not mysterious at all, th=
ough many of the concepts are not currently supported by science. Â The=
biodynamic farmer puts in dramatically more time and energy into their lan=
d, and all of the biodynamic preps are basically good microbial foods. Â=
They pay attention to their land, and I think this is the main benefit.
Sure, there's no air diffusers or air lifts in a stream, it's a man-made in=
vention but I don't think this proves a point. Â If you were to put one=
in with an air pump, the stream would have higher DO. Â Vortexes exist=
in Nature. They raise DO levels. Â Do they do it as efficiently as an =
air lift? Â Not according to science.
I don't necessarily feel that biodynamics is better than organics as a conc=
ept, though in practice this is probably the case. Â Many of the commer=
cial organic farms are hardly better than their conventional counterparts. =
 I believe that sustainability and buying local are the more important=
steps towards fixing our food system. Â I do think there are some wond=
erful sustainable organic farms that would rival any biodymanic farms, like=
Joel Salatin's farm in Omnivore's Dilemma for example, which he refers to =
as "beyond organic."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/environment/2009-04-21-polyface-farms_N=
.htm
I struggle a bit with biodynamics from a rational point of view in the same=
way I struggle with religion to a certain extent. Â Steiner says to do=
these mysterious preps at special times of the year and claims that they h=
ave certain potency and energy. Â As a gardener/farmer, you're asked to=
accept these things at face value because science can't measure everything=
. Â Why aren't there more studies relating to biodynamics or properties=
of water? Â Now are the plants happy due to some magical properties, o=
r the fact that for the most part there's good organic practices going on (=
compost, mulching, minerals, etc...)? Â I don't see anything special un=
der the microscope when I look at a tea from a vortex brewer vs a more conv=
entional design, and typically a vortex will have a lower DO unless an airl=
ift or diffuser is incorporated. Â But I'm supposed to accept that a vo=
rtex is better because it changes the properties of the water and imparts e=
nergy that we
have no way of measuring? Â All of the word of Steiner? Â I do lov=
e the look of a vortex brewer though, it is much more aesthetically pleasin=
g.
I don't want you to take this the wrong way. Â I really respect biodyna=
mic farmers, and I think the produce they produce is truly first class. Â=
I just wish there was more evidence to support the more non-conventional=
ideas that biodynamics promotes. Â I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just=
saying that some of it makes zero sense to me from a rational point of vie=
w and I wish I could get an answer that didn't involve me having blind fait=
h (which is ironic because I do consider myself Christian). Â Maybe I n=
eed to do more research, or you can point me in the right direction.
As a compost tea brewing industry though, I do think it's important that we=
rely on science as a foundation of our basic practices and beliefs. Â =
I think ACT still gets a horrible rap, and we come across as snake oil sale=
smen to many people. Â Consistent brewing using high quality compost, a=
good brewer design (vortex or not), proper nutrient inputs (microbial food=
s), and direct microscopy to evaluate the tea is very important. Â I th=
ink it's the only way we will ever gain legitimacy as an industry, both as =
applicators and brewer manufacturers. Â There is so much we've already =
learned about aerated compost teas in the last decade, such as proper micro=
n size (400), desired brewing lengths (typically 24-36 hours), minimum diss=
olved oxygen levels (6mg/l), optimal temps (68F-70F), how fish hydrolysate =
effects a finished tea, and much much more. Â I hope we can continue to=
promote good knowledge and experimentation as we learn more and more about=
ACT and the
relationship between microbes and plants.
Tad
www.kisorganics.com
PS: Â I have chickens so I was curious about your calcium comment. Â=
Wasn't able to find anything online about how chickens produce eggs with=
low levels of calcium. Â Everything I could find supported the latter =
conclusion. Â I have to feed my chickens a high calcium diet if I want =
good eggs that won't crack or have soft shells. Â You may find this lin=
k interesting:
http://www.afn.org/~poultry/flkman4.htm
I have yet to read anything that fully explains how worms convert nutrients=
, which would be a good analogy to your previous post. Â :)
________________________________
From: evanfolds <evan_at_progressearth.com>
To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 9, 2011 7:39 PM
Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Vortex Brewing Question
Â
Stephen, have you ever buried a cow horn and/or utilized what is created wi=
thin it on your garden or farm? You should try it.
The horn is actually buried using cow manure to create BD500 and quartz to =
make BD501. The plants and herbs (BD502-508) are created using other means.=
BD500 is buried during the winter months when the Earth is breathing in, a=
nd BD501 is buried during the summer months when the Earth is breathing out=
. If you dig around there is long term research that confirms the benefits =
of this approach. Here's one. It's interesting to note the data on storage =
losses, which is an indirect association of nutrient density:
http://www.jd=
b.se/sbfi/publ/boston/boston7.html
Here's another:
http://extension.oregonstate.edu/sorec/sites/default/files/=
comparison.pdf
Not to mention all the vineyards that use these methods. There is no group =
of farmers that pay closer attention to their crops than in viticulture. To=
me, this is a good mainstream indication that it works.
I've seen some pretty amazing results in personal gardens as well. The dire=
ct benefits really depend on the relative deficiencies in the garden. It se=
ems to fill in the blanks. We call this approach BioEnergetic farming.
Healthy soil is physically, minerally, biologically, and energetically bala=
nced, like four legs of a chair. If one is left out it cannot stand. "Organ=
ics", while better than conventional, is only the materialsitic end of natu=
ral farming. BioEnergetics addresses all four components.
Evan
www.VortexBrewer.com/microbe
--- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Steyn" <ssteyn_at_...> wrote:
>
> Hi Tim;
>
> What I was asking about was those things not easily researched, but claim=
ed
> nevertheless by people selling the idea.
>
> Like Steiner's concepts, like putting a concoction of weeds in a cows hor=
n
> and burying it on a full moon evening in a manure pile, muttering strange
> words and then diluting it 6000 times and still be left with a concentrat=
e.
>
> You know what I mean?
>
> The vortex is mean to imbue the water with special properties which scien=
ce
> cannot measure, yet they confer certain properties on the plants when
> watered.
>
> SS
>
>
>
>
>
> From: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com [mailto:compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Tim Wilson
> Sent: 08 October 2011 18:26
> To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Vortex Brewing Question
>
>
>
>
>
> Hey Stephen;
>
> That is why the air pump needs to be matched with the volume of water and
> pipe diameter.
>
> I'm not exactly sure what you are asking concerning vortexes. From my
> standpoint a vortex is great for creating a thorough mix with no dead zon=
es.
> There may be some other unknown aspects to what it does to water structur=
e
> but that is not something I know anything about and not something easily
> researched (AFAIK).
>
> Tim
>
> --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>=
,
> "Stephen Steyn" <ssteyn_at_> wrote:
> >
> > Tim;
> >
> > Maybe, depending on the characteristics of the pump, one need not have =
the
> > diffuser at the bottom of the riser, but partway up the riser. My reaso=
n
> for
> > adding this is that some pumps quickly run out of volume as the
> backpressure
> > increases - until eventually all you are creating is heat with minimal
> flow.
> >
> > Tim, I still worry about the advantages of the Vortex route. What are y=
our
> > gut feelings or findings in this regard?
> >
> > SS
> >
> >
> >
> > From: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com=
>
> [mailto:compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com=
> ]
> On
> > Behalf Of Tim Wilson
> > Sent: 08 October 2011 03:05
> > To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>=
> > Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Vortex Brewing Question
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm replying to my own post to keep the information under the correct
> > heading. I wish to point out that in Evan's post under wood chunks in
> > compost he addressed what I said concerning vortexes but seemed to have
> > missed the point I made stating that a vortex can be created in more
> simple
> > fashion using only one riser and return pipe. The water is still allowe=
d
> to
> > take the vortex path which it yearns to and this can be adjusted as to
> > direction and intensity by simply twisting the elbows on the PVC pipe.
> >
> > There may be a possibility even probability that a vortex increases the
> > dissolved oxygen (DO2) in water negligibly, however in this situation,
> > scientifically, applying physics, the DO2 is increased via the use of a=
ir
> > lift(s). Actually up to 10 times.
> >
> > Concerning the use of diffusers, it has been measured by some science g=
uys
> > and by me that by using a diffuser at the base of the airlift riser pip=
e
> one
> > can considerably multiply the DO2, over using no diffusers at all. I ha=
ve
> > posted a couple of papers outlining some studies on airlifts in the fil=
es
> > section. One details some of the math employed, the other is not great =
but
> > does mention the diffuser issue. They will probably both make your eyes
> > glaze over but this is part of what I went through determining my air l=
ift
> > diffusion chamber.
> >
> > I have posted some photos of efforts of some of my students to build
> simple,
> > relatively inexpensive airlift [one is super super cheap $10] and vorte=
x
> > brewers using only one airlift and riser/return pipe. As you can see th=
ere
> > is an acceptable vortex created. They have reported outstanding results=
to
> > me with their gardens but I'm not one to count on testimonials. Who kno=
ws
> > what they are comparing it to?
> >
> > Just so you know, with my advice, they have all switched the air input =
to
> > the horizontal instead of under the riser pipe.
> >
> > One needs to fiddle [or do the math] to get the correct diameter pipe f=
or
> > the pump. EG. I just ran some trials using 3/4 inch, 1 inch and 1.25 in=
ch
> > pipe with the same pump. The 1 inch and 1.25 inch created an identical
> flow
> > but the turbulence was greater with 1 inch and the flow was greatly
> reduced
> > with the 3/4 inch. Go figure.
> >
> > Salutations,
> > Tim
> > Get a duck
> >
> > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.co=
m>
> <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> > "Tim Wilson" <thegoodjob_at_> wrote:
> > >
> > > You can generally follow the instructions to building a vortex brewer
> but
> > save yourself a lot of extra effort by using only one riser pipe. Not o=
nly
> > is the vortex pholosophy subjectively questionable but you can obtain a
> > pretty good vortex with one pipe anyway. Do some research a think about
> it.
> > > http://www.microbeorganics.com/#So_You_Wanna_Build_A_Compost_Tea_Brew=
er
> > > BTW, sure you can dump the compost right into the water, so long as i=
t
> > does not have big chunks.
> > >
> > > Salutations,
> > > Tim
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>
> > , "somydi" <somydi_at_> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I am new to brewing and in my research on making a 5 gallon tea
> brewer,
> > I am thinking of making a vortex type. The only information I am not su=
re
> > about is if I should contain the compost in a bag or let it cycle throu=
gh
> > the brewer. If I let it cycle then I will need to think about pipe sizi=
ng?
> > Having read so much on the benefits of compost tea, I am looking forwar=
d
> to
> > making my own so any helpful ideas will be welcomed.
> > > > -John
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Received on Mon Oct 10 2011 - 02:01:17 EDT