[compost_tea] Re: Sustainable Farming News & Biological Agriculture Information. > Blog Archive > 8 Essentials for Successful Microbe Brewing

From: mikethewormguy <mikethewormguy_at_aol.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 19:26:27 -0000



Tim,

I think it is a matter of accepted convention, within a specific context, a=
s to what language is used. In other words, it depends on where you were sc=
hooled and what industries you worked.

In the commercial industrial microbially world when they grow out microbes,=
 the process is called fermentation. The device used is called a fermentor=
 or biofermentor.

There are two phases for fermentation, solid and liquid. Thus you have liqu=
id state fermentations and solid state fermentations.

>From this context, the EM process would be liquid phase anaerobic fermentat=
ion.

So there is no right or wrong. It is a matter of what you words you are use=
 to using.

The ACT folks use the word 'fermentation' in a different way than folks tha=
t work in industrial fermentation. This how they were taught.

In regard to using EM ferment liquid, as a stubble buster, I would agree th=
at there is a place this liquid. But the microbes in this blend are not the=
 optimal choice. The fungi have the enzyme systems that are better suited =
for stubble busting.

I have read Doud's work concerning on-farm production of endomycorrhizal mi=
crobes using nurse plants. It is pretty cool stuff.

At the end of the day, folks will continue to use the bio-tools that works =
for their soil and crop, no matter what are called.

Happy Holidays to All !!!!





--- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "Tim Wilson" <thegoodjob_at_...> wrote:
>
> I have consulted with farms of 4000 acres, 1700 acres, and 1200 acres, wh=
ich all use ACT. I know that by some standards, these are small but I think=
 they pass as large scale ag.
>
> ACT is absolutely not a fermentation process. (At least not in my vocabul=
ary) Neither is Liquid Compost Extract (LCE). There are fermentations like =
EM which serve great purpose in horticulture. I have found EM fermentations=
 to be very good for degrading crop residue/dead roots, etc.
>
> When I ferment EM I use a pH meter to evaluate when the fermentation is c=
omplete but have not added anything in an attempt to adjust the pH. I'll ha=
ve to inquire at the EM plants to see if they adjust the pH in their big va=
ts.
>
> One can easily ad Trichoderma to a brew at the onset to sprout out the sp=
ores. I've got some growing in my lab right now. If one is going to use Tri=
choderma, better (IMO) to use it not combined with endomycorrhizal products=
 as it can inhibit endomycorrhizal infection. Most concoctions with both us=
ually have an enormous number of Trichoderma spores compared to very few en=
domycorrhizal spores, giving the Trich a further leg up. Better to choose s=
eparate species wisely based on crops grown. One can use Trich quite effect=
ively without endomyc or use endomyc and then Trich later if encountering f=
ungal pathogens. If you decide on endomycorrhizal use it at seeding/plantin=
g time. Endomyc spores do not sprout in ACT.
>
> The N fixers, microbial inoculants etc. are a dime a dozen in bottles wit=
h different labels all over the place. I do not include these in the same c=
lass as ACT, although ACT contains some of these bacterial types. These can=
 be very useful in horticulture but it may not be the greatest idea to dump=
 them into a brew. To find the best, just see what the ingredients are, inc=
luding microbial counts per volume and get the best bang for your buck.
>
> Various endomycorrhizal fungi species provide nitrogen to root systems if=
 this is what is meant by fungal N fixers. A very good source of informatio=
n on this subject is David D Douds Jr.
>
> I've emailed the source of the newsletter requesting supportive data.
>
> Tim
>
> --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "mikethewormguy" <mikethewormguy_at_> wr=
ote:
> >
> > I found many of the points made in the newsletter that could be useful,=
 more for large scale ag, than gardening.
> >
> > In commercial fermentations, adjusting the pH to keep in within a speci=
fic range is standard procedure. I suspect that most compost brewers do no=
t have a the controls and metering pump to make pH adjustment effective too=
l. Thus I would not recommend the practice for brewers.
> >
> > The use of cellulose, hemicellulose, and lignin degraders in stubble br=
eakdown is a great application for extracts. Having some level of trichoder=
ma in the extract liquid is key.
> >
> > There are a few species of free-living nitrogen fixers that lend themse=
lves to mass fermentation. Freeze-drying is an effective manner to keep th=
e microbes dormant.
> >
> > Working in large scale ag, I agree with Stephen, that there are some sp=
ecific applications for specific microbial groups that make sense. To make =
this happen, you either need a pre-made product and/or solid experience in =
specialty compost making. You need to understand the wee beasties and what=
 makes them happy and sad..........
> >
> > My 3 cents.....
> >
> > Happy Holidays !
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Steyn" <ssteyn_at_> wrote:
> > >
> > > Tim;
> > >
> > > I note your reservations about Graeme Saits article. I think your poi=
nts are
> > > valid.
> > >
> > > I have never found anything that Sait has written or said to be based=
 on
> > > poor research. In fact much of the information he provides is cutting=
 edge.
> > > He seems to scour the globe ( or academic literature) for information=
.
> > >
> > > He provides a new and different way of addressing problems which are
> > > typically associated with ACT. Freeze dried biology. Tried and tested=
 foods
> > > and with quality determined by him. Nitrogen fixing bacteria. Stubble
> > > digesting fungi. These are problems of large scale agriculture (and I
> > > suppose to gardening but probably to a lesser extent). We try to use =
ACT and
> > > hope that it has the ingredients to address problems we think we may =
have.
> > > He tries to brew ACT with remedies for specific problems. He produces=
 his
> > > freeze dried inoculum so it is probably produced specifically for bre=
aking
> > > down straw. This we know is easy enough to do. Producing nitrogen fix=
ing
> > > fungi I would assume is more complex.
> > >
> > > I think we can benefit from the article.
> > >
> > > Maybe it gives you some ideas too...
> > >
> > > SS
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com [mailto:compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com=
] On
> > > Behalf Of Tim Wilson
> > > Sent: 18 December 2011 22:27
> > > To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Sustainable Farming News & Biological Agri=
culture
> > > Information. > Blog Archive > 8 Essentials for Successful Microbe Bre=
wing
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Stephen,
> > >
> > > People can try what they wish but I don't like to mess around with ad=
justing
> > > pH in a brew as it just throws things out of balance (IMO).
> > >
> > > Do these people supply any data or do they do any research? Their sta=
tement
> > > that molasses selects for a limited number of bacterial species seems=
 to
> > > indicate a lack of time looking down a microscope tube. That molasses=
 feeds
> > > only bacteria is old information which was started 'I don't know wher=
e'.
> > > Black strap molasses feeds both bacteria/archaea and fungi equally we=
ll, in
> > > my experience. Paul Stamets uses molasses to grow out fungal hyphae.
> > >
> > > [as a side note, I believe that it has yet to be proven that the fung=
i grown
> > > out in ACT is the same type of fungi we refer to when we speak of fun=
gal
> > > dominated soils. I'm not saying that the fungi grown in ACT does not
> > > contribute to the health of soil, just that I've not seen supportive =
data
> > > that the species of fungi grown in ACT have a direct role in nutrient
> > > delivery to the roots of plants similar to endomycorrhizal fungi. I a=
m
> > > hopeful of related research)
> > >
> > > I do not usually have trouble extracting and growing fungi in an effi=
cient
> > > brewer using [vermi]compost which has fungi in it. The time it takes =
usually
> > > ranges from 10 to 24 hours depending on how active the [vermi]compost=
 is.
> > >
> > > Here is my data from two brews made with only 2.38% vermicompost mixe=
d with
> > > 0.50% black strap molasses. Judge for yourself.
> > >
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZz7vnaX2S8
> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZz7vnaX2S8&feature=context&conte=
xt=C3016b7e
> > > ADOEgsToPDskJTsOMGQcbl821vfr-OSCGP>
> > > &feature=context&context=C3016b7eADOEgsToPDskJTsOMGQcbl821vfr-OSC=
GP
> > >
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR7ZTrZQuFg
> > > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR7ZTrZQuFg&feature=context&conte=
xt=C3016b7e
> > > ADOEgsToPDskJTsOMGQcbl821vfr-OSCGP>
> > > &feature=context&context=C3016b7eADOEgsToPDskJTsOMGQcbl821vfr-OSC=
GP
> > >
> > > Tim
> > >
> > > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.=
com> ,
> > > "Stephen Steyn" <ssteyn_at_> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear fellow composters:
> > > >
> > > > Received this via my subscription to Graeme Sait's site. I hope you=
 find
> > > it
> > > > as interesting as I did. The idea of buffering the ACT to different=
 pHs
> > > > depending on whether you wanted bacterial or fungal dominance seems=
 a good
> > > > one.
> > > >
> > > > SS
> > > >
> > > >
> > > http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/blog/2011/12/8-essentials-for-microbe-br=
ewing/
> > > >
> > > > -- Shared using Google Toolbar
> > > >
> > >
> >
>




Received on Mon Dec 19 2011 - 15:20:08 EST

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