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Re: [compost_tea] Warming to Battle?



Hi Kirk,

I strongly suggest you rethink your strategy on this.

Whatever else it shows, the Bess study shows it is possible to take 'Class A
Biosolids' type compost and brew up a mess of E.coli from it.

Blame the brewer, blame the compost, blame the DO meter, blame the
nutrients,  it doesn't matter....

So, if 'compost tea' (or 'full foodweb foliar inoculation') is to be saved
as an organic methodology for fresh produce production, guarantees need to
be in place that truly ensure that the feared 'food safety crisis' can not
emerge.

Compost tea advocates should accept the possibility of this occuring and
take the lead in putting safeguards into place to avoid it. Distinguish
certified, tested, full foodweb cultures from high quality foodweb sources,
from the other sorts, and give them something they can feel safe about
accepting. Use only sources with negative E.coli test results, a point upon
which I think we could all agree and receive approval on.

I accept as reasonable the concern that many will 'roll their own' teas
without adequate testing and safeguards. You need to take this possibility
seriously and give it appropriate attention.

Then, for serious practitioners, compost tea ( or full foodweb foliar
inoculation) can be continued and developed as an organic technique. But it
must be done by the book, and with adequate safeguards.

My two cents,

Frank Teuton

PS: For Joel Reiten and anyone else who doesn't read Elaine's writings
carefully, what she says about biofilms is that as they thicken, the
possibility for anaerobic conditions increases, not just that any biofilm
indicates anaerobia....see this URL

http://www.montana.edu/wwwpb/univ/ecoli_2.html

"BOZEMAN -- Where do bad" bugs like E. coli 0157 come from? Scientists
aren't really sure, said MSU-Bozeman microbiologist Gordon McFeters.

Some scientists think water is involved. McFeters did a study of algae that
grow in the summer months and form a biofilm, or slime, on rocks of a
pristine alpine stream. As the algae mature and die off, organisms like E.
coli can grow in the nutrient bed, he said.

That's an example of finding organisms where you don't expect them," he
said. "I'm not surprised by anything anymore."



And while you are at it, see this one too:

http://www.montana.edu/wwwpb/univ/ecoli.html

"MSU's Gordon McFeters said NASA, too, is interested in the invention. The
space agency has come close to aborting space shuttle missions owing to
bacteria in the astronauts' drinking water. As with the meat industry,
testing methods are available but growing the organisms in the lab can take
too long.

"Microbiologists are going to have to be divorced from making plate counts,
and we think this kind of an approach is quite attractive," said McFeters. "


----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirk Leonard" <kirk@oregonatural.com>
To: "Compost Tea Group" <compost_tea@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 10:16 PM
Subject: [compost_tea] Warming to Battle?


> CT Folks:  I haven't heard from anyone on my last post but I couldn't help
> sending the following today anyway.  Hope you find it OK.  The message,
> subject "Where Have You Been," was sent to Richard Matthews and Barbara
> Robinson at USDA, copied to Owusu Bandele, Peter DeFazio and Darlene
Hooley.
> Latter two are Oregon congressional representatives.
>
> Mr Matthews & Ms Robinson:  Thank you for finally posting the transcripts
of
> the NOSB 10/19-20/02 meeting.  I saw them for the first time today.  Mr
> Matthews asked on 10/19 "Where have they been?" in commenting on some
> people who have recently raised questions about the 8/9/02 NOP staff
> interpretation of the NOSB Compost Task Force 4/11/02 recommendations on
> compost tea, among other things.  Where have we been?
>
> Well, many of us have been working quietly and earnestly on promising
> organic technologies, in particular aerated compost teas.  I personally
was
> not affected until my vermicompost products had to be abandoned by a
> certified grower and customer in April this year, because I make them with
> manure.  Your confusing compost tea and composted manure with raw manure
is
> absurd.  Please do not do this in the future.  Apart from the loss of
> business I have suffered, for a composted and vermicomposted product that
is
> absolutely, guaranteed, lab-tested, organically excellent, I find your
> attitudes about compost tea to be ludicrous, based on zero facts or faulty
> information at best.
>
> We have simply been observing until now, and we're not going to sit back
and
> let you do what you might want on compost tea because what the two of you
> are thinking is not appropriate.  In short: You're full of bull on compost
> tea, as well as manure.
>
> Now that we have your attention, we will prove to you that aerated compost
> teas are among the most beneficial organic methods and materials you could
> imagine.  Count on that.  We've been working on it.  Where have you been?
>
> I am copying Congressional and NOSB representatives on this because I and
> the international group I represent as a volunteer will not let go of this
> one.  A National Organic Program that does not approve of and encourage
> compost teas is not organically sound.  It's that simple.  Where have you
> been?
>
> R. K. Leonard
> Aurora, Oregon



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