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RES: [compost_tea] Re: Correction on Soil Analysis



Number 1 - For your statement "that the order of cations adsorption 
to the clay is the following : H+, Na+, K+, Ca++, Mg++" is False.

(1) Magnesium is released before calcium. In this case, calcium 
replaces the other cations, it's not getting replaced by itself.

(2) Calcium will increase.

You fail to take into account that the magnitude of the charge is 
not the only consideration. The SIZE of the ion also determines the 
strength of attraction between cations and soil particles. 

The calcium displaces the sodium and THEN the sulphate combines with 
the sodium and is leached out. 

Number 2 - Your statement "if they in fact grow more that would be a 
great chance to cut them and make a nice mulching".

They will need to be composted first to kill any seeds or you will 
end up with a worse problem than you started with. 

Number 3 - Adding Phosphorous is one of the most expensive 
fertilizer elements there are. Very impractical. 

Number 4 - Calcium will not leave. See Number 1.

Number 5 - Over time, calcium will build up in the soil from 
irrigation water. No additional calcium would be needed.

If the soil analysis is too costly, imagine how much it will cost to 
make and spray CT, add Phosphorous and Gypsum.

Aside from planting ground cover and irrigating as too expensive, 
then using weed cloth could be another alternative.

Nice try, but I HAVE done my homework.    

--- In compost_tea@yahoogroups.com, "Jose Luiz M Garcia" 
<gingerjo@t...> wrote:
> I believe that you have to review your soil chemistry
> concepts as you don't seem to have a clear cut picture
> of what you talking about.
> 
> Number 1 - For your statement that :
> " Gypsum is used to reduce sodium levels in soils 
> where excess sodium is present".
> You are partially correct BUT the order of cations adsorption 
> to the clay is the following : H+, Na+, K+, Ca++, Mg++
> That means that anion SO4-- from Gypsum will remove
> preferably H+, then Na+, then K+ and so on.
> Sulphate (SO4--) will remove basically every cations but
> the order of preference will be the above.
> It does not remove only Sodium (Na+) leaving everything else 
behind.
> No !!! Everything will go out. This aspect is facilitated by the
> flocculation
> (Opening) capacity of the Calcium contained in the Gypsum.
> As the soil opens by flocculation of the clay myceles everything 
having
> a
> positive charge will attach to sulphate and will leave the soil.
> So what you just said is a half truth.
> 
> Number 2 - " germination of 
> weed seeds can greatly be reduced." ( by mulching )
> You sound like you did not read entirely my previous message.
> Steve Diver have said that applying CT to the weeds will make them
> grow more exuberant  which I do agree. But I have already said that
> if they in fact grow more that would be a great chance to cut them 
and 
> make a nice mulching.
> 
> Number 3 - 
> " As far as the soil goes, if you add phosphorous and levels 
become 
> too high, you risk tying up other nutrients "
> 
> Did I ever suggested to add phosphorus so that the levels will 
became
> TOO high ?
> 
> No, what I have just said is that ALL the samples have low 
phosphorus 
> AVAILABILITY so either you add P or you make it soluble working 
the soil
> biology. Do you know any other way ? Please let me know because I 
don't.
> 
> Number 4 -
> " If you add gypsum, you are adding more calcium and sulphur. 
Calcium 
> interferes with magnesium nutrtion." 
> 
> Probably you are not aware of Dr Albrecht's concepts to soil 
chemistry.
> If you were, you would know that there is only one instance that 
gypsum
> is recommended and that is when you have around 60% of the base
> saturation
> filled with Calcium.
> Do you know why ? Probably not.
> That is because whenever you apply Gypsum, you paradoxically loose
> calcium so that at the end you end up with less calcium than when 
you
> started. Check that out.
> You apply gypsum and the soils opens. Everything leaves ( not only
> Sodium as you think) including calcium and the soils tights up 
again,
> but if you have enough
> calcium that retightening would happen that much.
> All the 4 samples had calcium above 60% in the base saturation.
> % of Base Saturation for Calcium
>   Ca          70.6                    62.3                 72.5
> 69.5
> 
> Do you see any sample bellow 60% in those figures ?
> Some of them I dare to say have already TOO much calcium and that
> already is interfering with Magnesium so taking out some calcium 
seems
> like a good idea.
> 
> Number 5-
> " Calcium is present in nearly all  irrigation water".
> 
> We have two aspects here.
> A- That is again a half truth presented to this road side weed 
problem.
>      It is true that irrigation water contains calcium BUT not in 
the
> quantity
>      and in the form that soil needs it, otherwise we would not 
see a
>     generalized lack of calcium throughout the world ( USA 
included ).
> I have seen soils in Texas that have so much calcium that you 
actually
> see
> little white stones and the irrigation water has so much calcium 
that
> every irrigation drip leaves a white halo around the water bulb  
but yet
> the plants suffers from calcium deficiency.
> So that responds to you above remarks.
> B - Are you suggesting irrigating the road side plots of all USA 
and
> when
>      project lider is worried about the cost of soil analysis ?
>      If you ever get to be the Secretary of Agriculture of the USA
> please let me know
>      in advance because then irrigation might become a very good
> business.
> 
> Finally I did not quite understand what was your practical 
suggestions
> to this
> project. What should Merla do ? Leave as it is . Do nothing.
> 
> I said put P according to the need, put Gypsum ( also to the need )
> and apply Compost Tea. Those were my suggestions and make mulching.
> 
> What do you suggest ?
> 
> To my understanding your remarks were not geared by  good will and
> the willing to help Merla but solely with the intention to 
antagonize
> what I have
> said about it.
> 
> Please review your soil chemistry concepts before engaging 
yourself in a
> soil
> chemistry contest.
> 
> Try again.
> 
> Jose



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