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Re: The Limits To Growth
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Subject: Re: The Limits To Growth
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From: briand@net-link.net (Brian Carnell)
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Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 03:02:42 GMT
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Article: 15825 of alt.sustainable.agriculture
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Newsgroups: alt.agriculture.misc, alt.org.earth-first, alt.politics.economics, alt.politics.greens, alt.save.the.earth, alt.sustainable.agriculture, sci.agriculture, sci.econ, sci.energy, sci.environment, talk.environment
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Organization: TFC Productions
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References: <542t7d$iep@rainbow.rmii.com> <32665F05.112@ilhawaii.net> <JMC.96Nov10090026@Steam.stanford.edu> <565ehv$qm9@agate.berkeley.edu> <01bbcf5b$bd8e1700$89d0d6cc@masher> <3287B796.29F5@ilhawaii.net>
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Reply-To: brian@carnell.com
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Xref: newz.oit.unc.edu alt.agriculture.misc:6323 alt.org.earth-first:6410 alt.politics.economics:92253 alt.politics.greens:23258 alt.save.the.earth:25352 alt.sustainable.agriculture:15825 sci.agriculture:15701 sci.econ:59982 sci.energy:57716 sci.environment:111182 talk.environment:76461
On Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:32:38 -1000, Jay Hanson <jhanson@ilhawaii.net>
wrote:
>Mike Asher wrote:
>
>> As an aside, I will note that the majority of agricultural land in the
>> world is farmed with low-tech inefficient methods. Expantion of the use of
>> modern agriculture, new species, and good infrastructure, can more than
>> double world food production. All without an additional acre being farmed,
>> though, in the US at least, agricultural land usage has been on the decline
>> for many years. Perhaps you have some statistics here?
>
>Modern agriculture is not sustainable.
>
>=========================================================================
>
> THERMODYNAMICS AND THE SUSTAINABILITY OF FOOD PRODUCTION
> by Jay Hanson <jhanson@ilhawaii.net> — revised 11/04/96
>
Been reading a bit too much Jeremy Rifkin there methinks.
You know, *nothing* is sustainable in the long run. Human life is
clearly not sustainable indefinitely.
Like this nonsense you post here:
"Sustainable systems are "circular" (outputs become inputs)—all linear
physical systems must eventually end. Modern agriculture is increasing
entropy in both its sources (e.g., energy, soil, and ground water) and
its sinks (e.g., water and soil). Thus, modern agriculture is not
circular—it can not be sustained."
There's *no such thing* as a "circular" system. All conversion of
input to output inherently leads to an increase in entropy.
You remind me a lot of some of these creationists on Usenet who argue
entropy disproves evolution. Evolution after all is also a "linear
system" which has somehow "sustained" itself for billions of years.
You should join the creationists in an entry level physics course.
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Brian Carnell http://www.carnell.com/
brian@carnell.com
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