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Re: Yuri receives hypocrite of the week award (was Re: Ecological Economics and Entropy)
On 5 Dec 1996 23:40:40 GMT, joan@med.unc.edu (Joan Shields) wrote:
>On 4 Dec 1996 19:30:18 GMT, joan@med.unc.edu (Joan Shields) wrote:
>>>Uhm, actually, infectious diseases aren't going down - not everywhere.
>
>David Lloyd-Jones <dlj@pobox.com> wrote:
>>Infectious disease has gone down sharply, which is why we have a
>>one-time leap in population from a billion to ten billion.
>
>Huh? Could you please explain this further - I'm not quite getting what
>you mean. Infectious disease has not gone down sharply and if you check
>with the CDC and WHO you can see for yourself. Some infectious diseases
>have gone down and yes, compared to a hundred years ago the incidence is
>lower in many places
So far you confirm what I say. I would be a little bit stronger about
it: the incidence of almost all infectious diseases has gone down in
almost all places.
> HOWEVER, the incidence has been going up in the past
>twenty-thirty years.
This is so vague as to be meaningless. Which ones where. As I
pointed out earlier, some diseases are up in some parts of the very
badly governed US. this is purely a matter of the abdication of
responsibility by the information-handling class, and can be easily
cured by a few years of minimally competent government.
>>>Malaria is spreading -
>
>>Uh, just exactly what do you mean here?
>
>Exactly what I said. It's the most important infectious disease in the
>world today. Check with the World Health Organization if you don't
>believe me.
As I told you earlier, malaria catches about 50 million people a year,
and kills about twenty million. My partner (and all her family) has
it. When we became serious she told me that she thought it might be a
menace to me, and I should consult my doctor. I studied the subject a
little, and I found that malaria is a big horror story. Some human
groups, maily the Nilotics, are immune to it. Other groups, the white
ones, live in places where the anopheles mosquito doesn't. When they
go south they take gin and tonic with them.
The peoples in between die by the millions.
This does not, however, support your hysterical claim that the disease
is spreading. I stand by my earlier claim that both infection and
fatalities are about constant, thanks to the balance between
increasing urbanisation (more deaths) and increasing good health
because of nutrition (fewer).
>>Some white guy caught it, so
>>it's a disease now?
>
>Well, actually, quite a few "white" guys have caught it. As a matter of
>fact there are cases of locally aquired malaria in Florida. It used to be
>endemic in the US, in North Carolina until 1941 or so. Mosquito
>erradication programs are what did it and continue to do it (still very
>important as there are other mosquito transmitted diseases).
Quite right. I also encourage the spread of gin and tonic -- although
I understand that US law tries to keep out tonic water made with
genuine quinine. Bad move.
<ignorant counterfactual stuff snipped: what does WHO know? 40
million, sixty? Gimme a number.>
>While a reasonable diet will certainly help a person cope with the
>disease, I was unaware that it had a hand in preventing it? Does it
>protect the person from being bitten by the mosquito or does it prevent
>the parasite from infecting the body? Perhaps you could explain this
>further?
Well fed people have better immune systems.
>>The cure for malaria is known: alphalt roads, piped water and sewage,
>>air conditioned houses. If we could make malaria a serious problem
>>for white people, no doubt this solution would be implemented toot
>>sweet.
>
>The cure for malaria is all that? I think there's a little more to it
>than that although the water bit is a good idea. Remove where mosquitos
>breed and you'll certainly help the situation. As for the rest - you
>might have something there although malaria causes enough economic loss in
>the world and an awful lot of people are working on it...
Confess, baby: I got it exactly right, spot on. A middle class
standard of life, and there ain't gonna be any old tires int he
backyard. Any time you build an asphalt road you also build the
culverts to keep it above the marsh. More fish, and less swampt.
A very geat deal of what human being do is good all around: we even
get a better class of piscene neighbours for our troubles.
>>>the incidence of waterborne disease in the US has
>>>been on the rise since the 1970s (well over 1 million people a year become
>>>ill in the US and this number is assumed to be underreported). There are
>>>many emerging diseases and many reemerging diseases (i.e. Tuberculosis).
>>>You can check out the CDC web page (http://www.cdc.gov) for more
>>>information. Of course, then there's the influenza pandemic....
>
>>These are all true, but the population of the US is only about 5% of
>>the whole, so it doesn't matter much. All of these problems are
>>attributable to the late medieval policies of the government there,
>>and will be cured in about eight years flat if they ever pull
>>themselvs into the twentieth century.
>
>Exactly how will this be done? You do know about the problem with drug
>resistant TB et al? I have the feeling you don't have a lot of training or
>know a lot about infectious diseases in the world let alone in the US.
Drug resistant TB is cured the same way any TB is: good food and clean
housing. If you have an emergency case you hit it with an antibiotic
cocktail, plus saline, sugar, and maybe a bit of handstroking,
monitoring, and a stimulant, in extremis a shot of adrenaline, to
pull the human host through this huge attack.
(Your implicit oint about drugs being used too much and accelerating
the evolution of new beasties -- panic du jour, and reason for us to
keep loving our drug companies -- has some truth to it, but not a lot.
Soap is the most important drug we have. Bursts the little beasties'
cellular shells. Something about the VanDer Waals forces of detergents
that I used to know when I was in the coin laundry business. Maybe I'm
the one sho should work for Proctor and Gamble.)
It is a public health problem for the most part -- but the US is
consumed in its insane fervour for private this and private that, so
they don't believe there is such a thing as public health.
>>>Some things are getting better and some things are getting worse but the
>>>bottom line is that some things need to change - or else.
>
>>Help me get a fix on things: is that a tautology or a redundundancy?
>Listen, if you can't be bothered to argue in an intelligent and thoughtful
>fashion - why the hell should anyone even consider your viewpoint?
And the same to you with brass knobs on. I just thought that your two
liner above -- "some things are getting better and some things are
getting worse" -- was a bit of sublime fatuity. If you reread it now,
I'm sure you will agree.
>[snipped nonsense]
>>Hey, Joan, you're really good at that stuff. Have you considered a
>>career with Proctor and Gamble?
>Address the issues at hand. If all you have to argue with are lame
>personal attacks, why bother?
The issue at that point was only the silliness of your rhetorical
coda. I made fun of it. I guess I found a sensitive spot.
Joan, you basically have good instincts, but you are woefully short on
fact and long on conventional wisdoms.
Keep practicing,
-dlj.
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