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Re: Running a red light



kennystar@megaweb.com (KENNY MORSE) wrote:
>
>CVC 21453(a)'s KEY provision...the one that gets the MOST people
>hearing the world GUILTY is this: the word "FACING".
>
Here is the text of 21453(a):

21453.  (a) A driver facing a steady circular red signal alone shall
stop at a marked limit line, but if none, before entering the
crosswalk on the near side of the intersection or, if none, then
before entering the intersection, and shall remain stopped until an
indication to proceed is shown, except as provided in subdivision
(b).

>If you are caught FACING a solid red signal, then they can cite you
>for running the light.  This virtually means that if your car hsa NOT
>exited the intersection, and you are left facing the signal, THAT will
>get you the ticket.  There is NO LAW in California against goint
>through a yellow light...it's just that most people think a yellow light
>means SPEED UP!!!! (see my t-shirt with THAT design on my homepage).
>Is it defensible? Sure, but you MUST know how to present the case!!!

It seems from the text of 21453(a) that facing the signal would only apply
if you had not passed any of the stopping points.  It would not seem reasonable
to think that you could stop at a line behind your current location when the
light changes to red and you are suddenly "facing" a red.

If you were required to stop on red, and being in the intersection while
the light turns, then the code covering yellow lights would mention this.
Here is the text of 21452.

21452.  (a) A driver facing a steady circular yellow or yellow arrow
signal is, by that signal, warned that the related green movement is
ending or that a red indication will be shown immediately
thereafter.
   (b) A pedestrian facing a steady circular yellow or a yellow arrow
signal, unless otherwise directed by a pedestrian control signal as
provided in Section 21456, is, by that signal, warned that there is
insufficient time to cross the roadway and shall not enter the
roadway.

>Here is how it is enforced in a practical sense....if the cop thinks you could
>have stopped in time for the light, and you didn't, you're gonna get
>the ticket.  If your FRONT TIRES have passed the limit line of the 
>intersection when the light was GREEN or GREEN CHANGING TO
>YELLOW, you have broken NO law.  BUT.....if you enter when it is
>YELLOW and it changes to RED before you cleared the intersection, 
>then you might get 21453(a).

What you describe here actually was part of 21452(b) as originally enacted.
V.C.1935 section 476(b) required vehicular traffic facing yellow to stop
before entering the nearest crosswalk or at a marked line, but if the stop
could not be made in safety, to be driven cautiously through the intersection.

These provisions were dropped by a 1945 amendment.

Finally, this of course only applies to California.  I have no idea what
the rules are in other states.  I would imagine that most officers would
not give you a ticket for entering on yellow, and then changing to red
while you were in the intersection.  In addition, I would imagine that
any officer who would issue a 21453(a) violation in this case would testify
to the judge that you entered on red regardless of the actual facts, and
the judge would not believe that you entered on yellow unless you had
some serious supporting evidence (ie. videotape).

-- 
Pete Johnson					pete@sei.com
Silicon Engineering, Inc.			http://www.sei.com
269 Mt. Hermon Road, Suite 207			(408) 438-5331 x 111
Scotts Valley, CA 95066



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