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Re: Running a red light




In article <41kt4g$sl6@news.scruz.net> Pete Johnson  wrote:
>kennystar@megaweb.com (KENNY MORSE) wrote:
>>
>>CVC 21453(a)'s KEY provision...the one that gets the MOST people
>>hearing the world GUILTY is this: the word "FACING".
>>
>Here is the text of 21453(a):
>
>21453.  (a) A driver facing a steady circular red signal alone shall
>stop at a marked limit line, but if none, before entering the
>crosswalk on the near side of the intersection or, if none, then
>before entering the intersection, and shall remain stopped until an
>indication to proceed is shown, except as provided in subdivision
>(b).
>
>>If you are caught FACING a solid red signal, then they can cite you
>>for running the light.  This virtually means that if your car hsa NOT
>>exited the intersection, and you are left facing the signal, THAT will
>>get you the ticket.  There is NO LAW in California against goint
>>through a yellow light...it's just that most people think a yellow light
>>means SPEED UP!!!! (see my t-shirt with THAT design on my homepage).
>>Is it defensible? Sure, but you MUST know how to present the case!!!
>
>It seems from the text of 21453(a) that facing the signal would only apply
>if you had not passed any of the stopping points.  It would not seem reasonable
>to think that you could stop at a line behind your current location when the
>light changes to red and you are suddenly "facing" a red.
>
>If you were required to stop on red, and being in the intersection while
>the light turns, then the code covering yellow lights would mention this.
>Here is the text of 21452.
>
>21452.  (a) A driver facing a steady circular yellow or yellow arrow
>signal is, by that signal, warned that the related green movement is
>ending or that a red indication will be shown immediately
>thereafter.
>   (b) A pedestrian facing a steady circular yellow or a yellow arrow
>signal, unless otherwise directed by a pedestrian control signal as
>provided in Section 21456, is, by that signal, warned that there is
>insufficient time to cross the roadway and shall not enter the
>roadway.
>
>>Here is how it is enforced in a practical sense....if the cop thinks you could
>>have stopped in time for the light, and you didn't, you're gonna get
>>the ticket.  If your FRONT TIRES have passed the limit line of the 
>>intersection when the light was GREEN or GREEN CHANGING TO
>>YELLOW, you have broken NO law.  BUT.....if you enter when it is
>>YELLOW and it changes to RED before you cleared the intersection, 
>>then you might get 21453(a).
>
>What you describe here actually was part of 21452(b) as originally enacted.
>V.C.1935 section 476(b) required vehicular traffic facing yellow to stop
>before entering the nearest crosswalk or at a marked line, but if the stop
>could not be made in safety, to be driven cautiously through the intersection.
>
>These provisions were dropped by a 1945 amendment.
>
>Finally, this of course only applies to California.  I have no idea what
>the rules are in other states.  I would imagine that most officers would
>not give you a ticket for entering on yellow, and then changing to red
>while you were in the intersection.  In addition, I would imagine that
>any officer who would issue a 21453(a) violation in this case would testify
>to the judge that you entered on red regardless of the actual facts, and
>the judge would not believe that you entered on yellow unless you had
>some serious supporting evidence (ie. videotape).


Pete.....

Thanks for your ambitious post.

No, as I said.....it is enforced exactly as I laid it out.

If there is a trial, and there is a YELLOW light involved, the officer says
the words "Stale yellow" on the stand...not necessarily asserting that a
solid red was involved before the defendant entered the intersection.

Now, as you have suggested, there are defenses IF...big IF...you
know how to present a case, but, as you also said....when it comes
to your word against the officer....they come to court as a professional
with a badge and a uniform and no real reason to lie.  You, you come
as lying pond scum, with every reason in the world to lie your head off.

A court where one is virtually guilty until proven innocent has MEGA problems.
The court that is the opposite has Mega problems, so imagine the quagmire
of traffic court.  Most people have NO clue what to do, and on my homepage
next month, I will discuss How To Fight A Ticket in this system weighted 
against you.

Kenny Morse
Mr. Traffic
http://www.usbusiness.com/mr_traffic.html




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