--- In ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, vimalkumar ranganathan <panardasan@xxxx> wrote: > > Sri: > > Srimate Ramanujaya Nama: > > > > Respected adiyArs, > > > > In the Bhagavad Gita, just 3 shlokas before the famous Charama Shloka, Perumal says (18.63) > > > > iti te jnanam akhyatam > guhyad guhyataram maya > vimrsyaitad asesena > yathecchasi tatha kuru > > > > Meaning: Thus I have explained to you the most confidential of all knowledge. Deliberate on this fully, and then do what you wish to do. > > Dear Sriman Soundararajan, Sriman Parthasarathy Iyengar Swami has already answered your question. I am just sharing my views. In Ramanuja Bhashya for Gita, what Sri Ramanuja says for this Sloka is: "You follow any of the three yOgas already preached by Me i.e. Bhakti, karma, gnAna as you like". So here there is NO QUESTION of God giving choice to the jeeva to accept Him or not to accept. He is simply telling arjuna to live a nArAyaNa conscious life by following any of the three yOgas. However, in the explanation for the charama Sloka, Sri Bhattar says he is neither able to practise any of these yOgas nor leave them (as upAyas to reach Him), as he has realized that he is ALWAYS UNDER the Lord's control. Also this Sloka 18.63 is not a prelude to charama Sloka as you said. But the next Sloka is the prelude where He says "Again I am going to tell you the topmost secret". Just before the Sloka 18.63 quoted by you, in 18.58, Sri Krishna tells arjuna "Focus your thoughts on Me. You will be delivered ONLY out of my grace (as interpreted by Ramanuja). If you do not listen out of you ahankAra you will perish." So, Krishna is cautioning us against our worst enemy i.e. our ahankAra. So there is no question of giving us choice. He is rather advising s to follow Him. In subsequent verses, Krishna furhter clarifies that you will be made to fight, even if you dont listen to Me out of ahankAra. Also He says it is the Lord seated in the hearts of jIvas Who is making them act out of His power. He advises arjuna to take shelter in such ISwara. In 11.33, Sri Krishna advises arjuna to be a mere instrument in His hands (nimitta mAtram bhava savya sAchin). Also Krishna makes fun of arjuna as he adresses him as the person capable of using the bow with left hand "savya sAchI". In Ramanuja Bhashya, swami rAmAnuja says "consider yourelf to be a weapon in My hand..". This is the concept of achithvath pAratantryam or the jIva considering himself to be like a non-sentient object in the hands of the Lord. Now I will ask ou one question. If somebody knows that SrImannArAyaNa is supreme, will he not have faith in Him? Will he still say "I know He is my deliverer but still do not want to believe in Him"? So it is a matter of conviction and not a mattter of choice, I feel. The problem comes when we think we have to do something to get near to that great Lord. Instead, we can have complete faith in Him and be happy. adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan Vishnu > Here Krishna gives the Choice to the Jeevatma, Arjuna being the representation of the Jeevas. Kindly notice that this statement totally contradicts the concept of Nirhetuka Kripa. If one quotes the Charama Shloka, in which Lord Krishna asks the Jeevatma for total surrender and that is the concept of Prapatti, one should also realize that this Shloka is a prelude to the Charama Shloka, Krishna says, in the next verse (BG 18.64 ), "Because you are My very dear friend, I am speaking to you the most confidential part of knowledge. Hear this from Me, for it is for your benefit". And then goes on with the Charama Shloka. > > > > So the crux of the issue is this: Perumal gives the choice to the Jeevatma, regarding what to do and what not to do. Meaning, the Jeevatma has free-will (definitely!!). How are we to understand that we don't have any freewill, and Moksha is 100% dependent on His will, without not even an iota of our effort?? > > > > I request the Bhagavatas in this forum to kindly address this query of mine. > > > > AzhwAr emperumAnAr Jeeyar ThiruvadigaLE Saranam. > > > > Dasan, > > > > Kidambi Soundararajan. > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed
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