You are here: SriPedia - Ramanuja - Archives - May 2003

Ramanuja List Archive: Message 00087 May 2003

 
May 2003 Indexes ( Date | Thread | Author )
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]


--- In ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, vimalkumar ranganathan 
<panardasan@xxxx> wrote:
> 
> Sri:
> 
> Srimate Ramanujaya Nama:
> 
> 
> 
> Respected adiyArs,
> 
> 
> 
> In the Bhagavad Gita, just 3 shlokas before the famous Charama 
Shloka, Perumal says (18.63) 
> 
> 
> 
> iti te jnanam akhyatam 
> guhyad guhyataram maya 
> vimrsyaitad asesena 
> yathecchasi tatha kuru
> 
> 
> 
> Meaning: Thus I have explained to you the most confidential of all 
knowledge. Deliberate on this fully, and then do what you wish to do.
> 
> 

Dear Sriman Soundararajan,

Sriman Parthasarathy Iyengar Swami has already answered your question.
I am just sharing my views.

In Ramanuja Bhashya for Gita, what Sri Ramanuja says for this Sloka 
is: "You follow any of the three yOgas already preached by Me i.e. 
Bhakti, karma, gnAna as you like". So here there is NO QUESTION of 
God giving choice to the jeeva to accept Him or not to accept. He is 
simply telling arjuna to live a nArAyaNa conscious life by following 
any of the three yOgas. However, in the explanation for the charama 
Sloka, Sri Bhattar says he is neither able to practise any of these 
yOgas nor leave them (as upAyas to reach Him), as he has realized 
that he is ALWAYS UNDER the Lord's control.

Also this Sloka 18.63 is not a prelude to charama Sloka as you said. 
But the next Sloka is the prelude where He says "Again I am going to 
tell you the topmost secret".

Just before the Sloka 18.63 quoted by you, in 18.58, Sri Krishna 
tells arjuna "Focus your thoughts on Me. You will be delivered ONLY 
out of my grace (as interpreted by Ramanuja). If you do not listen 
out of you ahankAra you will perish." So, Krishna is cautioning us 
against our worst enemy i.e. our ahankAra. So there is no question of 
giving us choice. He is rather advising s to follow Him.

In subsequent verses, Krishna furhter clarifies that you will be made 
to fight, even if you dont listen to Me out of ahankAra. Also He says 
it is the Lord seated in the hearts of jIvas Who is making them act 
out of His power. He advises arjuna to take shelter in such ISwara.

In 11.33, Sri Krishna advises arjuna to be a mere instrument in His 
hands (nimitta mAtram bhava savya sAchin). Also Krishna makes fun of 
arjuna as he adresses him as the person capable of using the bow with 
left hand "savya sAchI". In Ramanuja Bhashya, swami rAmAnuja 
says "consider yourelf to be a weapon in My hand..". This is the 
concept of achithvath pAratantryam or the jIva considering himself to 
be like a non-sentient object in the hands of the Lord.

Now I will ask ou one question. If somebody knows that SrImannArAyaNa 
is supreme, will he not have faith in Him? Will he still say "I know 
He is my deliverer but still do not want to believe in Him"? So it is 
a matter of conviction and not a mattter of choice, I feel. The 
problem comes when we think we have to do something to get near to 
that great Lord. Instead, we can have complete faith in Him and be 
happy.

adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan
Vishnu


> Here Krishna gives the Choice to the Jeevatma, Arjuna being the 
representation of the Jeevas. Kindly notice that this statement 
totally contradicts the concept of Nirhetuka Kripa. If one quotes the 
Charama Shloka, in which Lord Krishna asks the Jeevatma for total 
surrender and that is the concept of Prapatti, one should also 
realize that this Shloka is a prelude to the Charama Shloka, Krishna 
says, in the next verse (BG 18.64 ), "Because you are My very dear 
friend, I am speaking to you the most confidential part of knowledge. 
Hear this from Me, for it is for your benefit". And then goes on with 
the Charama Shloka.
> 
> 
> 
> So the crux of the issue is this: Perumal gives the choice to the 
Jeevatma, regarding what to do and what not to do. Meaning, the 
Jeevatma has free-will (definitely!!). How are we to understand that 
we don't have any freewill, and Moksha is 100% dependent on His will, 
without not even an iota of our effort??
> 
> 
> 
> I request the Bhagavatas in this forum to kindly address this query 
of mine.
> 
> 
> 
> AzhwAr emperumAnAr Jeeyar ThiruvadigaLE Saranam.
> 
> 
> 
> Dasan,
> 
> 
> 
> Kidambi Soundararajan.
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed






[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next] [Date Index ] [Thread Index ] [Author Index ]
Home Page
http://www.ibiblio.org/sripedia
ramanuja-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
To subscribe to the list