Dear Sriman Dasarathy, I entirely agree with you. We have to show proper respect to all Vaishnavas no matter what caste they belong to. I am a Srivaishnava from Hyderabad, Andhra Pradesh. There are many Srivaishnavas in the region which is called Andhra pradesh now. Many have surnames which are common in what is called Tamil Nadu now like Nallanchakravarthi, Madabhooshi, Prativadibhayamkaram, Kandadai, Kidambi, Mudumbai etc and there are those with proper Telugu surnames which are nothing but the village names. Many do not know Tamil now but somehow try to study at least the Tiruppallandu, Tirupalliyezhuchi and Tiruppavai. It is only after the avataram of HH Sriman Tridandi Chinna Jeeyar Swamy that the Srivaishnavas are trying to find their identity. Of course they wear the Tirunamam and undergo Samasrayanam and thus become Vaishnavas. Some of us are fortunate to know Tamil from our parents and so can follow the divya Prabandham well. Now there are 4 Jeeyar Swamijis in Andhra Pradesh who are doing yeomen service in spreading the Ramanuja Darsanam in AP. Sometimes the Srivaishnavas (read brahmin Vaishnavas) in Andhra region feel we do not get proper respect among Srivaishnavas from Tamilnadu. So the non brahmin Vaishnavas definitely are not given proper attention even if they know the Divya Prabandham better than us. We should consciously alter this situation if we want to spread Ramanuja Darsanam among all sections of the society. I also concur with you that ahara nishta and marriages are aspects which are personal and are not to be dictated by social norms. We have to do many other common things in a way that we make all sections of the people at home in the larger Vaishnava Kulam. Adiyen, Dasan, Ramnaujam. ________________________________ > To: ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > From: epd40@xxxxxxxxxxx > Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 11:38:16 +0530 > Subject: Re: [sri ramanuja] Caste Creed and Varna in Srivaishnavam > > Dear Ramanujam > I correct my stance wrt vaishyas as pointed by you. Apart from that, could > some thing more be dwelled upon srivaishanava kula poorthi. > I want to highlight this at this juncture particulary for atma gnana and not > sarira sampanda we intend to have with fellow srivaishnavas. > What I mean by this is, restrictions on varnasrama dharma are not to be > refuted rather, when it comes to exchange of atma guna poorthi, > what should be the stance of a srivaishnava. A practical question. Today a > handful of few might have knowledge on srivachanabushanam either because of > its greatness or because of a reader's biasedness on it, since it was being > commentaried by our acharyan (Maamunigal). > But the overall is, > Do our vaishnava kulam shows the same strength in atma guna poorthi towards a > bhagavatha when he is having sampradaya gnana in thoughts and deeds > Question might be, today's srivaishnavas are not like emperumanar or pillai > uranga villi dasar or maraner nambi so we cant find whether a bhagavata is > having atma guna poorthi. Hence lets all stick on to, varnasrama even in > sampradaya pravachanam and samvadams (discourses and discussions). > But the catch to this point is, > we accord the same respect of emperumanar/ 72 simasanadhipadis, to the > current emperumanar sthanams, as well as acharya purushas just because of > thier lineage whereas, > a srivaishnava nigraham occurs (no exchange of atma guna / bhrama gnana) if > he fails to fall within the bhramana kulam > To worsen this, in the name of aacharam various standards have evolved within > groups of srivaishnavam. Here the objective is, > 1) Not to mocker at our existing reality since I also belong to the part of > reality (Srivaishnava kulam) > but, try making the objective of sri vaishnava guna poorthi expected by > Manavala maamunigal and Pillai lokacharyar a reality and truly not at the > cost of ignoring manusmrithi or varnasrama and > 2) To evolve a common acharam for both atma gunam and varnasramam > So question boils down to > Correct questions: > 1) How to treat a srivaishnava sreshta who is full with atma guna poorthi > irrespective of thier belongings > 2) How to exchange atma gnana with them > 3) What would be the standard for aacharam for a srivaishnava abiding with > Varnasramam. > And the question never intends to (Wrong Question) > 1) How to do inter caste marriages > 2) How to dine equally with all everywhere. > because, marriage involves anushtana poorthi for a srivaishnava > (Gruhastashramam) and just not emotional or physical attachment > Please let us have the right questions (Correct Questions 1 2 and 3) and not > the (Wrong Question) as objectives. > adiyen > Ramanuja dasan Dasarathy Elayavilli Ponnappan > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Ramanujam Varada Srinivasa Thatta <acharyatvsr@xxxxxxxxxxx> > To: Dasarathy <ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Wednesday, 11 October, 2006 11:02:26 AM > Subject: RE: [sri ramanuja] Caste Creed and Varna in Srivaishnavam > Please do some more deeper study. Vaysyas are Upaveetas and can learn and > recite Vedas. > Ramanujam. > ------------ --------- --------- --------- - > > To: ramanuja@yahoogroup s.com<mailto:ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > From: epd40@yahoo. co.in<mailto:epd40@xxxxxxxxxxx> > > Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 05:54:06 +0000 > > Subject: [sri ramanuja] Caste Creed and Varna in Srivaishnavam > > > > Dear All, > > A subtle thought process in the lineage of a question being raised by > > one of my kin. Question pertains to varnasrama in Srivaishnavam. > > I had few thoughts with respect to the question. I request our people > > to clarify, correct any mistakes with pramanam for the answers I had > > given. > > > > Question by my Kin: > > > > "The below thing I wrote when I was a part ramanuja.org discussion > > list. I didn't get any answer for this. Still I am searching the > > answer for this. Do anyone of you have? > > > > Respected Sir, > > kulanthaangu saathikaL naalilum keezizinthu, > > etthanai nalanthaa nilaathasaN daaLasaN daaLarka Laakilum, > > valanthaangu sakkarath thaNNal maNivaNNaR kaaLenRuL kalanthaar, > > adiyaar thammadi yaarem madikaLE. > > If an individual is a devotee of Lord Vishnu, then, even if he belongs > > to a lowly caste, you must consider his devotee's devotee as your > > lord. I'm quoting this paasuram from tiruvaymoli. I have quoted the > > explaination from our own web site www.ramanuja. org. > > > > Whatever i understood from the above paasuram according to my > > intellect is that if a person is a devotee of shriman naarayan to > > whatever castes he/she belongs should be given enough respect. Then > > why in our sampradaayam it is so that in the name of achaaram we > > discriminate among our own people. Even if they are great devotees of > > lord naarayan they are not given enough respect just because they > > belong to low caste. I have seen many people who are brahmins and shri > > vaishnava but they do not follow any rules and regulations of what > > shri vaishnava should follow.But even then they get respect in the > > society as well as by high intellectuals since they belong to high > > caste. Should it be not like this that the discrimination should be > > made only on this basis whether a particular person is a devotee of > > shriman naarayan or not rather than caste.Is our sampradaayam > > emphasize on casteism. I also felt that casteism is one of the main > > reason that our sampradaayam' s message is not widely spread. If by > > mistake i have written something wrong due to ignorance then i am > > extremely sorry for that. > > > > with regards > > charchita > > > > Answer: > > Dear Charchita > > The message is apt but the concept of varnasrama should or could not > > be confused here. > > Varnasrama Dictates Rules For > > 1) Individual's Work in society > > a) Bhramins - Bhramanosya Mookam aaseeth. Bhramins come from face > > of vishnu. Let them be responsible for learning Vedas, chanting it, > > and spreading it. By no means they can enter > > i) Trade > > ii) Warfare > > iii) Cultivation or any means of procurement > > b) Kshatriya - Baaho rajanya krutaha: By the muscle power let the > > rajans rule the world. They should > > i) Conquer and control teritories > > ii) Learn Vedas and not teach / preach them > > iii) Be the sole properitor of wealthiest items in his teritory > > c) Vaysya - Vaysyo Dhana samridhasyad - Let the merchants trade and > > earn money. Let them use thier strength in thighs to travel far off > > and bring money. > > i) They cannot learn/preach vedas > > d) Shudra - Shudra sukam avapnuyaad - Let the fourth caste people do > > the job of line men, agriculture, hunting and all work of building > > assisting kings in army. Thereby they are not directly responsible for > > any decisions but enable decision makers to fulfill the objective of > > society. They can > > a) Have multiple marriages, have food without bath, can kill animals > > and move from places to places. > > Now the key point is Narayana bhakta > > He who is intrested in bhramagnana is above these 4 castes which come > > by birth and has to be respected alteast equivalent to vishnu, > > If currently bhramins/ sri vaishanavas are not doing it its solely the > > fault of the individuals and not that of the sampradaya > > Instances: > > Ramanuja before bath used to hold hands of mudaliyandan (Bhramana > > sreshta)and later after bath hold the hand of pillai uranga vali dasar > > (4th caste person) > > Nampillai called one dasar to submit the food he prepared for perumal > > fearing the atma guna poorthi of his second wife. > > Lot of instances where disciples were of 4th caste but they were > > deciding people of sampradaya, > > Our great Acharyan Manavala maamunigal got the greatest of rahasya Sri > > vachana bushana from the mouth of an acharya called koora kulothama > > dasar who by his birth is the care taker of burial ground (Sandala > > vargam). Note: Please correct the name of our poorvacharya who did the > > kalakshepam of Srivachana bhushanam to maamunigal. > > Points: > > We have to take sree pada theertham from the lotus feet of any sri > > vaishnava of any caste if he shows atma guna poorthi. abiding the > > faith on manavala maamunigal and ramanuja if we fail to do so we dont > > call ourself sri vaishnava and because of hypocrats pure sampradayam > > is getting dis illusioned as the caste oriented system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Azhvar EmberumAnAr JeeyAr ThiruvadigalE Saranam > > http://www.vedics. net<http://www.vedics.net> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to Windows Live > Spaces > http://clk.atdmt. com/MSN/go/ msnnkwsp01000000 01msn/direct/ 01/?href= > http://spaces. live.com/ > signup.aspx<http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0100000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/signup.aspx> > ________________________________ > Find out what India is talking about on - Yahoo! Answers > India<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/in/yanswers/*http://in.answers.yahoo.com/> > Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Yahoo! Messenger Version 8. 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