You are here: SriPedia - Ramanuja - Archives - Oct 2006

Ramanuja List Archive: Message 00113 Oct 2006

 
Oct 2006 Indexes ( Date | Thread | Author )
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]


Srimathe Ramaujaya Namaha
 
Jai Sri krishna.
 
I have been following this thread for a while...Some good points coming up.  Vaishnvaism is a sect of respect, and honour for Hari and Hari bhakthas regardless of who they are.  This sentiment echoes throught the Bhagavatam, Ramayana etc where His Lordship goes and accepts the devotion of even low casts such as Shabri, Guha etc..  And again our acharayas, Shatakopan muni, Muni Vahana Alwar, Ramanuja etc ahve shown us this to..
 
I was on the BBC news website today and came across this article
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6050408.stm
 
Ok it is slightly of the point of this topic...  But what does it tell us???  Despite All the anti conversion laws so many Dalits are leaving Hinduism....And can we blame them???  No...if i was a dalit and was so oppressed and not given proper knowledge on Acharyas and gita I would also leave Hinduism in hope of some dignity. 

We all know that this Dalit oppression in India is an un-vedic practice, these mass conversions should not happen...but they do due to ignorance of proper Vedic Dharma...despite all the issues discussed in this threat relating to Varna and SriVaishnavam, we can all conclude that Srivaishnavam is open to all people!!!  I thus I  firmly beleive that instead of anti-conversion laws, it is the all inclusive and welcoming Vaisnvism which will save our religion from conversions. 
 
SO we should ignore this castism in the Beautiful Ramanuja Sampradaya and instead concentrate on what is important...spreading Bhakthi which is waht Sri Chinna jeeyar Swamiji is doing irespective of caste or creed...This swamiji is so mercifull that he is crossing the seas to foreign lands to spread HariBhakthi, something which previous Acharyasa did not attempt.

Ramanujam Varada Srinivasa Thatta <acharyatvsr@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Dear Sriman Venkatesh,
Well said. I concur with you totally.
Adiyen,
Dasan,
Ramanujam

----------------------------------------
> To: ramanuja@yahoogroups.com
> From: vinjamoor_venkatesh@yahoo.com
> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 10:58:22 +0000
> Subject: Re: [sri ramanuja] Caste Creed and Varna in Srivaishnavam
>
> srImathE rAmAnujAya namaha
> srImadh varavara munayE namaha
>
> Dear All,
>
> For some time now, I have been a passive follower of this list after
> my initial contributions. But this mail from Smt Charchita, made me
> think that I have to reply.
>
> The question posed by Smt Charchita is very correct and straight
> forward. Instead of giving tangential replies, let us admit that we
> are discriminating. This is a fact. No amount of examples on the
> origins of Varnasrama dharma will justify this.
>
> Just think about this. How many of us bow our heads and fold our
> hands, in front of a Non-Brahmin Srivaishnavite (They are called
> Bhagavathas in ThiruvallikkEni and Kanchipuram) even before they do
> it to us. I see a very handful of us doing this.
>
> Smt Charchita, your question is very correct. I support your views.
> How many discriminations, in our own Srivaishnava society? Within the
> Brahmin Srivaishnavas, they say that a particular family is of lower
> status than another. How absurd?
>
> Well just to summarize an answer, we brahmins dont want to let go of
> their ego. We all talk a lot about Ramanujar holding Pillai
> Urangaavilli Daasar's hands after bath, Bhattar taking the Sripaadha
> theertham of a person belonging to a fourth varna, Periya Nambigal
> doing the anthima samskAram for Vilaanchola Pillai et al. But in
> reality we don't want to do it. It is nothing but ego.
>
> Truly, there are a whole lot of Non-Brahmin Srivaishnavites, who
> knows the Prabhandams totally compared to a Brahmin Srivaishnavite.
> But still they will be treated as a low caste fellow. Shame on our
> ego.
>
> Instead of taking the meaning of this pAsuram directly, we try to
> twist it to suit our whims and fancies. It is not only this pAsuram,
> there are pAsurams from ThirumAlai by Thondaradippodi AzhwAr. They
> also talk about this in the same vein. 1) "amaravOr angam ARum...."
> 2) "pazhudilA vozhugalAtRu.." are nothing but a few of such pAsurams.
>
> I believe, it is high time we let go of our "yAdhAnum paTRi neengum
> viradham" attitude in this matter and give them the due respect.
>
> Finally, I can say only one thing. Anybody who discrimates, based on
> caste, amongst the Srivaishnavas, doesn't have any right to talk
> about AzhwArs and AcharyAs and hence their work. This is my humble,
> if not arrogant, opinion.
>
> AzhwAr emperumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE saraNam
> adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan
> Thirumalai Vinjamoor Venkatesh
>
>
> --- In ramanuja@yahoogroups.com, "Ramanujam Varada Srinivasa Thatta"
> <acharyatvsr@...> wrote:
> >
> > Please do some more deeper study. Vaysyas are Upaveetas and can
> learn and recite Vedas.
> > Ramanujam.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------
> > > To: ramanuja@yahoogroups.com
> > > From: epd40@...
> > > Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 05:54:06 +0000
> > > Subject: [sri ramanuja] Caste Creed and Varna in Srivaishnavam
> > >
> > > Dear All,
> > > A subtle thought process in the lineage of a question being
> raised by
> > > one of my kin. Question pertains to varnasrama in Srivaishnavam.
> > > I had few thoughts with respect to the question. I request our
> people
> > > to clarify, correct any mistakes with pramanam for the answers I
> had
> > > given.
> > >
> > > Question by my Kin:
> > >
> > > "The below thing I wrote when I was a part ramanuja.org discussion
> > > list. I didn't get any answer for this. Still I am searching the
> > > answer for this. Do anyone of you have?
> > >
> > > Respected Sir,
> > > kulanthaangu saathikaL naalilum keezizinthu,
> > > etthanai nalanthaa nilaathasaN daaLasaN daaLarka Laakilum,
> > > valanthaangu sakkarath thaNNal maNivaNNaR kaaLenRuL kalanthaar,
> > > adiyaar thammadi yaarem madikaLE.
> > > If an individual is a devotee of Lord Vishnu, then, even if he
> belongs
> > > to a lowly caste, you must consider his devotee's devotee as your
> > > lord. I'm quoting this paasuram from tiruvaymoli. I have quoted
> the
> > > explaination from our own web site www.ramanuja.org.
> > >
> > > Whatever i understood from the above paasuram according to my
> > > intellect is that if a person is a devotee of shriman naarayan to
> > > whatever castes he/she belongs should be given enough respect.
> Then
> > > why in our sampradaayam it is so that in the name of achaaram we
> > > discriminate among our own people. Even if they are great
> devotees of
> > > lord naarayan they are not given enough respect just because they
> > > belong to low caste. I have seen many people who are brahmins and
> shri
> > > vaishnava but they do not follow any rules and regulations of what
> > > shri vaishnava should follow.But even then they get respect in the
> > > society as well as by high intellectuals since they belong to high
> > > caste. Should it be not like this that the discrimination should
> be
> > > made only on this basis whether a particular person is a devotee
> of
> > > shriman naarayan or not rather than caste.Is our sampradaayam
> > > emphasize on casteism. I also felt that casteism is one of the
> main
> > > reason that our sampradaayam's message is not widely spread. If by
> > > mistake i have written something wrong due to ignorance then i am
> > > extremely sorry for that.
> > >
> > > with regards
> > > charchita
> > >
> > > Answer:
> > > Dear Charchita
> > > The message is apt but the concept of varnasrama should or could
> not
> > > be confused here.
> > > Varnasrama Dictates Rules For
> > > 1) Individual's Work in society
> > > a) Bhramins - Bhramanosya Mookam aaseeth. Bhramins come from
> face
> > > of vishnu. Let them be responsible for learning Vedas, chanting
> it,
> > > and spreading it. By no means they can enter
> > > i) Trade
> > > ii) Warfare
> > > iii) Cultivation or any means of procurement
> > > b) Kshatriya - Baaho rajanya krutaha: By the muscle power let
> the
> > > rajans rule the world. They should
> > > i) Conquer and control teritories
> > > ii) Learn Vedas and not teach / preach them
> > > iii) Be the sole properitor of wealthiest items in his
> teritory
> > > c) Vaysya - Vaysyo Dhana samridhasyad - Let the merchants trade
> and
> > > earn money. Let them use thier strength in thighs to travel far
> off
> > > and bring money.
> > > i) They cannot learn/preach vedas
> > > d) Shudra - Shudra sukam avapnuyaad - Let the fourth caste people
> do
> > > the job of line men, agriculture, hunting and all work of building
> > > assisting kings in army. Thereby they are not directly
> responsible for
> > > any decisions but enable decision makers to fulfill the objective
> of
> > > society. They can
> > > a) Have multiple marriages, have food without bath, can kill
> animals
> > > and move from places to places.
> > > Now the key point is Narayana bhakta
> > > He who is intrested in bhramagnana is above these 4 castes which
> come
> > > by birth and has to be respected alteast equivalent to vishnu,
> > > If currently bhramins/ sri vaishanavas are not doing it its
> solely the
> > > fault of the individuals and not that of the sampradaya
> > > Instances:
> > > Ramanuja before bath used to hold hands of mudaliyandan (Bhramana
> > > sreshta)and later after bath hold the hand of pillai uranga vali
> dasar
> > > (4th caste person)
> > > Nampillai called one dasar to submit the food he prepared for
> perumal
> > > fearing the atma guna poorthi of his second wife.
> > > Lot of instances where disciples were of 4th caste but they were
> > > deciding people of sampradaya,
> > > Our great Acharyan Manavala maamunigal got the greatest of
> rahasya Sri
> > > vachana bushana from the mouth of an acharya called koora
> kulothama
> > > dasar who by his birth is the care taker of burial ground (Sandala
> > > vargam). Note: Please correct the name of our poorvacharya who
> did the
> > > kalakshepam of Srivachana bhushanam to maamunigal.
> > > Points:
> > > We have to take sree pada theertham from the lotus feet of any sri
> > > vaishnava of any caste if he shows atma guna poorthi. abiding the
> > > faith on manavala maamunigal and ramanuja if we fail to do so we
> dont
> > > call ourself sri vaishnava and because of hypocrats pure
> sampradayam
> > > is getting dis illusioned as the caste oriented system.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Azhvar EmberumAnAr JeeyAr ThiruvadigalE Saranam
> > > http://www.vedics.net
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > __________________________________________________________
> > Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to
> Windows Live Spaces
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0100000001msn/direct/01/?
> href="" href="http://spaces.live.com/signup.aspx">http://spaces.live.com/signup.aspx
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Azhvar EmberumAnAr JeeyAr ThiruvadigalE Saranam
> http://www.vedics.net
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

__________________________________________________________
Express yourself with gadgets on Windows Live Spaces
http://discoverspaces.live.com?source=hmtag1&loc=us



Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB storage with All New Yahoo! Mail. __._,_.___

Azhvar EmberumAnAr JeeyAr ThiruvadigalE Saranam
http://www.vedics.net






SPONSORED LINKS
Illinois home inspector Illinois home builder Illinois home
Illinois home for sale Chicago hotel illinois

Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next] [Date Index ] [Thread Index ] [Author Index ]
Home Page
http://www.ibiblio.org/sripedia
ramanuja-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
To subscribe to the list