Dear Bhagavatas: Enough has been said on the sunject. Let us close further discussions and move on. Moderator =================================================================== Namaste! I have some pointers for Sri Balaji. What is a manthra? Manthra is the one which protects one who contemplates on it - "mananaat thrayathe iti manthra" Note the word - manana / contemplation. Now what is "manana"? it is a second stage in the orthodox system of vedaadhyayana - shravana-manana-nidhidhyasana. So, without shravana - involving upadesha from an Acharya on scriptures - manana will not happen. Various upasanas as ordained in upanishats clearly proclaim the necessity of these three vareities in brahma jignasa (if one were to believe vedas and vedic god). So manana is the exaulted stage of contemplating on Vedic God and definitely not through our prakruthik mind / intellect. Manana is possible only when a person has purified his body, mind, intellect and the soul. Manthras are given by "manthra drastas"(the ones who had seen the devatha / bhagavadrupa of that manthra) to deserving disciples. The procedure is called "manthropadesha". Leaving the procedure aside, let us know about this manthras involving the avowed deities - hari, krishna and rama. Brahma preaches Narada this manthra as per kalisantharana upanishat. Leaving out whether this upanishat is valid; whether it is the one among those quoted by Jagadgurus(Adi Shankara;Ramanuja;Madhwa) etc., still, we can dwell on how to go about this manthra. I have taken only three Jagadgurus above because of various reasons(to my own limited understanding) and the primary one being they wrote Bhashya on Vyasa's Brahma Sutras. Who is "brahma" here? He is called as aja and chants vedas always and using the purports of it, like a true karma yogi, does creation. He is the pithamaha for all of us and is a Brahmagyani. Narada is the one who receives this manthra who himself is an avowed sage of incredible deeds in the field of spirituality. He is the one who wrote sutras on devotion; one who is the manthra drasta of dwadasha manthra of Vishnu and is the fittest to receive this manthra, for, he had fully understood and followed vedic purports of shravana-manana-nidhidhyasana. The exchange of this manthra involving two great souls like Brahma & Narada is the most befitting situation and the manthra thus taught remains pristine pure. Thus manthropadesha occurs/realised to its full potential only when the two jeevas come with certain qualification in terms of understanding God thru vedas. I don't know in the circumstances as mentioned above, how by simply chanting we get liberation. Definitely, when Brahma teaching this manthra, he is having Narada's adhyatmic capabilities in his mind and if not at that stage, atleast we should be thoroughly disciplined in practising what is ordained in scriptures to cleanse our mind so as to receive any manthra. To receive a manthra by internet and by hearing any of Lord's name while going in the streets or hearing Gayathri manthra coming out of a tape recorder in modern gayathri temples, one will not get liberation. Each Aksharas in Lord's name, let alone manthras, has its significance. Why, even everyone of the alphabets carry its own devathas/ bhagavadrupas indwelling in them. By joining them in a sequence along with a bijaaksharas in a certain way, we have manthras. Krishna is not just a name of a God, it is a subject of Vedas - smritis for our understanding and contemplation. My chanting his name, Jagadgurus chanting his name, Purandara Dasa chanting his name carry different weightage in terms of anusandhana (if one were to believe that word exists). It is anusandhana that gets us near to God. It is the Maha Vishwasa that gets us near shastras. It is the firm faith in Guru that lets us understand Vedic God within our own limitation. It is the tradition set forth by Jagadgurus and their disciples that leads one in the path of above 3 varieties. Afterall, if one were to think 'just by chanting' his name one gets liberation etc., only delimiting his 'swathanthratva'. It is not by our chanting that we get liberation, it is his krupa which ensures one gets out of this bondage. There is no short cuts and leeways in Shastras or in Krishna Bhakthi. It is not that easy, for, he is the lord of the universe. Vedas from time immemorial could not fully describe him. And we are taking it easy instead of trying out within our own limitation to study scriptures searching Vishnu for gaining pure happiness / bliss. Nowhere has Vishnu been described as in the vedas. If it seems contradictory, then we have Sutras from the Lord which fixes the meanings therein for ease of understanding. If chanting is enough, why Veda Vyasa has to write Sutras/puranas/bhagavatha and why Jagadgurus have to walk on this earth giving out the purport of Vyasa's works. So, sadhana is the utmost importance in our life and with it anusandhana in whatever we do is essential in the path of spirituality. Regards sukumar ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/VkWolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! 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