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SriRangaSri List Archive: Message 00020 Sep 2002

 
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Vignapanam,
with the blessings of my acharya Sri.U.Ve Goshtipuram swami let me attempt
to answer this.

1. There are many types in classifying 'tatvas'. Swami Desikan has handled
these in 'Chillarai Rahasyam'.
2. In that, classification in terms of 'chetana' and 'achetana' in one type,
'jadam' and 'ajadam', and 'para tatva', 'avara tatva' in another.
3. Before going in to these let us understand 'ganam' and its types. There
are two types of 'gnanam' - one - 'dharmi-gnanam' (eg. atma swaroopam)
second - 'dharmabhootha gnanam', 'suddhsatvam' (the achetana in Vikunta).
here first one is 'chetanam' and others are achetanam.
4. Hence 'atma' itself is a ganam also has another type of 'gnanam' as its
quality (dharmam). Swami desikan has extensively and lucidly dealt this in
Rahasyatrayasara. Note: without the blessings of acaharya this will not
become clear to one.
5. "gnanam' means 'swayamprakasam'. 'swayamprakasam' means the one shows
itself without the help of other. eg. for seeing a table we require light
(in the day it is sun light and in the night it is torch etc.). Hence, table
is not swayamprakasam. that means it requires another object to show itself.
However, to see a light we dont require another light. while it is showing
other objects, it is showing itself. This is the common definition for
'ganam'.

Now let us come back to point # 2.
6. 'ajadam' is defined as the one which is 'swayam-prakasam'. eg.
'dharmabhoota ganam', 'suddha-satvam'. pl note that these two are
'achetanams' also. Hence, the jadam and ajada classification is only in
'achetana'. there is no 'jadam' in chetana as all chetana is swayamprakasam
(pl look at the next point for a classification in this). 

7. Refer to pt#3: Let us look in to the difference between 'dharmi-gnanam'
and 'dharmabhootha gnanam'. One is chetana and another is achetana, but both
are 'ajada' since swayamprakasa. The only difference is that this
'swayamprakasa' to whom. only to 'itself' or only to others. If it is to
itself then it is 'dharmi-gnanam' (this is the actual atma swaroopa and it
is common for 'jevatma' and 'paramatma'. there is no differnec in this
aspect). If swyamprakasa is only for others and not to itself, then it is
'dharmabhootha gnanam' which is 'achetana'. The atma is able to gain
knowledge only because of the 'dharmabhootha gnanam'. The only knowledge
gained because of 'dharmi-gnanam' and that too ONLY to itself is "I"
('aham'). There is no increase or decrease to this knowledge "I" even in
this world or at moksha. There are increases and decreased to 'dharmabhootha
gnanam'. It is total and complete (like 'paramatma') at moksha state.

8. The advaithi's only atma (they call it as 'samvit' or 'Brahmam') is
something LIKE our 'dharmabhootha gnanam'. For them "I" is agnanam and that
is not there at moksha stage. This is what swami bhashyakara asks, if "I"am
not there why should I work hard to be there.

To answer the second question, we need to get the following context.

9. In our Bhashyakara philosophy, if there is a name ('nama') and shape
('roopa') it has all the three, 'chetana', achetana' and 'iswara'. If
achetana is more we call it achetana. eg., in water, we have other tatvas
exist (pritivi, theja, vayu, akasam), but we call it as water because it has
'water' 50%. This is an excellent treaty of swami bhashyakara. There is a
strong vedic verse for this.

10. 'Akhalya' was a stine at the time of 'upaya' (Rama's toch is the upaya).
Even in the stone state 'akhalya' atma was there. We know the stone grows
over the time. Also, there exist a 'frog' inside stone, born and dead
thereitself. 

There many be many mistakes in the above explanation. If so, it is mainly
because of my 'agnanam'. Kindly correct me.

dasan
sridharan (Ramnujan) 

-----Original Message-----
From: Rajagopalan Iyengar [mailto:mayuramtsr@xxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 9:30 PM
To: srirangasri@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Oppili Appan
Subject: [SriRangaSri] clarification re achethanam and jadam


Dear Bhagavathas,
Adiyen has got some doubt in understasnding the
meanings of achethanam and jadam , the difference
between chethanam and acethanam, between achethanam
and jadam.
I understand that chethanam is jeevathma, that which
has got an intellect. Achethanam has got no
intellect. My doubt is whether chethanam means that
which has got a life and achethanam has no life. If
so, lower forms of life like worms, germs, viruses,
trees etc which have got life but no intellect--Are
these to be classified as achethanam or chethanam.?

Secondly stones, lump of mud, pot etc are achethanams
or jada. But in the Vishnuputanam, in the story of
moksham of Dadhipandan, we find the pot was given
moksham. If so, can achethanam also get moksham? Or
is it to be taken as poetic fallacy? 

With regards,Adiyen, 
Rajagopalan.

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