Vignapanam, with the blessings of my acharya Sri.U.Ve Goshtipuram swami let me attempt to answer this. 1. There are many types in classifying 'tatvas'. Swami Desikan has handled these in 'Chillarai Rahasyam'. 2. In that, classification in terms of 'chetana' and 'achetana' in one type, 'jadam' and 'ajadam', and 'para tatva', 'avara tatva' in another. 3. Before going in to these let us understand 'ganam' and its types. There are two types of 'gnanam' - one - 'dharmi-gnanam' (eg. atma swaroopam) second - 'dharmabhootha gnanam', 'suddhsatvam' (the achetana in Vikunta). here first one is 'chetanam' and others are achetanam. 4. Hence 'atma' itself is a ganam also has another type of 'gnanam' as its quality (dharmam). Swami desikan has extensively and lucidly dealt this in Rahasyatrayasara. Note: without the blessings of acaharya this will not become clear to one. 5. "gnanam' means 'swayamprakasam'. 'swayamprakasam' means the one shows itself without the help of other. eg. for seeing a table we require light (in the day it is sun light and in the night it is torch etc.). Hence, table is not swayamprakasam. that means it requires another object to show itself. However, to see a light we dont require another light. while it is showing other objects, it is showing itself. This is the common definition for 'ganam'. Now let us come back to point # 2. 6. 'ajadam' is defined as the one which is 'swayam-prakasam'. eg. 'dharmabhoota ganam', 'suddha-satvam'. pl note that these two are 'achetanams' also. Hence, the jadam and ajada classification is only in 'achetana'. there is no 'jadam' in chetana as all chetana is swayamprakasam (pl look at the next point for a classification in this). 7. Refer to pt#3: Let us look in to the difference between 'dharmi-gnanam' and 'dharmabhootha gnanam'. One is chetana and another is achetana, but both are 'ajada' since swayamprakasa. The only difference is that this 'swayamprakasa' to whom. only to 'itself' or only to others. If it is to itself then it is 'dharmi-gnanam' (this is the actual atma swaroopa and it is common for 'jevatma' and 'paramatma'. there is no differnec in this aspect). If swyamprakasa is only for others and not to itself, then it is 'dharmabhootha gnanam' which is 'achetana'. The atma is able to gain knowledge only because of the 'dharmabhootha gnanam'. The only knowledge gained because of 'dharmi-gnanam' and that too ONLY to itself is "I" ('aham'). There is no increase or decrease to this knowledge "I" even in this world or at moksha. There are increases and decreased to 'dharmabhootha gnanam'. It is total and complete (like 'paramatma') at moksha state. 8. The advaithi's only atma (they call it as 'samvit' or 'Brahmam') is something LIKE our 'dharmabhootha gnanam'. For them "I" is agnanam and that is not there at moksha stage. This is what swami bhashyakara asks, if "I"am not there why should I work hard to be there. To answer the second question, we need to get the following context. 9. In our Bhashyakara philosophy, if there is a name ('nama') and shape ('roopa') it has all the three, 'chetana', achetana' and 'iswara'. If achetana is more we call it achetana. eg., in water, we have other tatvas exist (pritivi, theja, vayu, akasam), but we call it as water because it has 'water' 50%. This is an excellent treaty of swami bhashyakara. There is a strong vedic verse for this. 10. 'Akhalya' was a stine at the time of 'upaya' (Rama's toch is the upaya). Even in the stone state 'akhalya' atma was there. We know the stone grows over the time. Also, there exist a 'frog' inside stone, born and dead thereitself. There many be many mistakes in the above explanation. If so, it is mainly because of my 'agnanam'. Kindly correct me. dasan sridharan (Ramnujan) -----Original Message----- From: Rajagopalan Iyengar [mailto:mayuramtsr@xxxx] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 9:30 PM To: srirangasri@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Oppili Appan Subject: [SriRangaSri] clarification re achethanam and jadam Dear Bhagavathas, Adiyen has got some doubt in understasnding the meanings of achethanam and jadam , the difference between chethanam and acethanam, between achethanam and jadam. I understand that chethanam is jeevathma, that which has got an intellect. Achethanam has got no intellect. My doubt is whether chethanam means that which has got a life and achethanam has no life. If so, lower forms of life like worms, germs, viruses, trees etc which have got life but no intellect--Are these to be classified as achethanam or chethanam.? Secondly stones, lump of mud, pot etc are achethanams or jada. But in the Vishnuputanam, in the story of moksham of Dadhipandan, we find the pot was given moksham. If so, can achethanam also get moksham? Or is it to be taken as poetic fallacy? With regards,Adiyen, Rajagopalan. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Srirangasri-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxx Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ---------- This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. Any unauthorised review, use, disclosure, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email or any action taken in reliance on this e-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. Visit us at http://www.cognizant.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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