Dear Sri Dileepan, Before I start, I pay due respects to all seers and Acharyas. Nothing I write below is meant to show anybody in a lower light. I am writing below things that I felt were reasonable. My apologies to anyone this email may offend. That was not intended. I was reading your explanation of the presence/absence of jIvAtma in living/non-living things. It struck me as strange that the atman should be there in a pot only until it is broken. The pot was but clay until the potter gave it shape. In this is sense, it is an artificial thing. So when does the Atma decide to enter a pot or any other thing? And why should it enter the pot in the first place? And does the potter have the strength to control when a jIvAtma will enter an achetana object? Secondly, if the jIvAtma stays in the pot only as long as it has its proper shape, there is a precise time at which it enters and leaves, that can be controlled by us humans. So it seems to me that Atman is bound by time and space and its presence can be controlled by mere mortals like us. This seems contrary to what Sri Baghavan said in the Gita. An argument that the Atman is present in all things at all times seems to be more plausible. Sincerely, Narayanan > -----Original Message----- > From: dileepan [mailto:dileepan@xxxx] > Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 1:01 PM > To: SriRangaSri@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [SriRangaSri] Re: clarification re achethanam and jadam > > > --- In SriRangaSri@xxxx, Rajagopalan Iyengar <mayuramtsr@xxxx> wrote: > > > Secondly stones, lump of mud, pot etc are achethanams > > or jada. But in the Vishnuputanam, in the story of > > moksham of Dadhipandan, we find the pot was given > > moksham. If so, can achethanam also get moksham? Or > > is it to be taken as poetic fallacy? > > > These are important issues that must be properly understood > only by careful study under a qualified Acharya. This exact > matter was discussed by Srimad Azhagiya Singar during the > tele-upanyasam of Thirunedundandagam, Pasuram #2. Let > me try to present a gist based on my recollection. > > Any object that has a unique name and a form has a jIvatma > in it. When that object loses the form it loses its name, > and the jIvatma that resided in it transmigrates to the next > birth. For example, let us take a neem tree. It has a jIvatma > in it. Suppose that the tree dies and whithers away. It is no > longer a neem tree, it is just a stump. The jIvatma that was > in it has now departed. Another example, consider a human > with a name say, Rama. At the time of death the jIvathma > leaves the body. The body now loses its name, it is no longer > called Rama. Further, it also loses form. In a similar fashion, > a pot when in the form of a pot has the name "pot" and has a > jIvatma in it. When the pot breaks, the jIvatma departs from > the pot. The broken pieces do not have a unique form or a name. > It becomes part of panca bootham. At that stage it does not > have a jIvatma in it, like in the case of a dead human body. > > As lump of mud there is no jivatma in it, but when given the > shape of pot a jIvatma begins its residence in it. A stone > has no jIvatma, but when you build a house with it, there is > a jIvatma in the house. A tree has jIvatma, but when it is > felled, the jivatma departs. If the wood is then made into > a doll, the doll will then have a jIvatma in it. If the doll > is broken, the jIvatma departs. In all these cases, like in > the case of human beings and animals, we must distingish > between the acetanam which is the body, and the cetanam > that is the jIvatma. Our body is as much an acetanam as > the doll. The jIvatma inside the doll is as much a chetanam > as the jIvatma inside our body. > > Now, in the case of Dadhipandan, he was the jIvatma in the pot. > Since he was granted moksham by Lord Krishna, when he left the > pot, he got moksham. The pot did not get moksham, only the > jIvatma in the pot got it. This is no different from human > beings, when a human being who is a prapanna dies, it is only > the jIvatma who goes to mOksham, not the body of the human > being. > > If you are interested in learning about such matters consdider > attending Srimad Azhagiya Singar's tele-upanyasam. The next > one is scheduled for two weeks from this Saturday. For more > information and for registering please visit: > > http://www.ahobilamutt.org/upan/upanyas.asp > > -- dileepan > > p.s. Things correctly stated here are due to the grace of > Srimad Azhagiya Singar. If there are any errors they are > due to my misunderstanding. > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~--> > Plan to Sell a Home? > http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/MVfIAA/VkWolB/TM > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------~-> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > Srirangasri-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxx > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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