Hello everyone,
I’ve recently become fascinated by how the meaning of certain New Testament passages becomes clearer when read in the original Koine Greek.
It’s amazing to see how word choices and verb tenses can carry layers of meaning that are often lost in translation.
I’m still new to this, but I’m excited to keep exploring and learning with others who share the same passion for Scripture and language.
Thanks for welcoming me into this space!
Hello all forum members
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Re: Hello all forum members
τῷ φιλτάτῳ Patrick, χαίρειν.
Thanks for your thoughtful introduction, and welcome to B-Greek! It’s always great to see new members excited about delving into the original language of the New Testament.
Just a quick reminder about our forum policy: we ask all participants to identify themselves using their first and last name, either as part of their username (which I can change for you) or included clearly in their forum signature (which you can edit here). This helps maintain a sense of trust and openness in our community.
Could you please update your profile to reflect your full name in one of those places? Let us know which option you prefer.
Looking forward to your participation in the discussions ahead!
Thanks for your thoughtful introduction, and welcome to B-Greek! It’s always great to see new members excited about delving into the original language of the New Testament.
Just a quick reminder about our forum policy: we ask all participants to identify themselves using their first and last name, either as part of their username (which I can change for you) or included clearly in their forum signature (which you can edit here). This helps maintain a sense of trust and openness in our community.
Could you please update your profile to reflect your full name in one of those places? Let us know which option you prefer.
Looking forward to your participation in the discussions ahead!
Jason A. Hare
The Hebrew Café
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
Tel Aviv, Israel
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Re: Hello all forum members
Do you have a specific passage of Scripture where you find the meaning changes dramatically when read in Greek? I would love to hear specific examples to ponder and learn more!
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Re: Hello all forum members
πάλιν λέγω σοι χαίρειν. Does this mean that your name is Faustin Adelyth Felix? Or, Faustina Delyth Felix? I’m not sure what to call you.faustinadelythfelix wrote: ↑June 30th, 2025, 12:41 am Do you have a specific passage of Scripture where you find the meaning changes dramatically when read in Greek? I would love to hear specific examples to ponder and learn more!
I think that the combination of the available English translations rule out much difference between the meaning of the Greek and the meaning conveyed in English.
There are, however, interesting passages in the Hebrew Bible that get rendered differently in what we generally refer to as the “Septuagint” (LXX). For example, if you’re able to make a comparison of the whole of chapters 1 and 2 of 1 Samuel, it is really interesting. Today I learned that Isaiah 9:6 is rendered very differently in the Septuagint.
BTW, how’s your Hebrew?
Jason A. Hare
The Hebrew Café
Tel Aviv, Israel
The Hebrew Café
Tel Aviv, Israel
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Re: Hello all forum members
First off, I do think there is a lot of hype, but I don't think translations convey everything. Here are some examples involving tense and aspect - feel free to push back or disagree with my understanding of any of them:
"Everyone who is drinking from this water will thirst again,
but whoever should drink [once] from the water which I will give him will never thirst into the age."
Comment:
The present participle πίνων shows habitual, repeated activity;
the aorist subjunctive πῇ shows a single event.
"Everyone who is abiding in him does not sin;
everyone who is sinning has not seen him nor known him.
Everyone who has been begotten from God does not do sin."
Comment:
The present participles (μένων, ἁμαρτάνων) denote characteristic, ongoing practice, not one-off events.
This explains the tension with "if we say we have no sin."
"And comes toward him a leper, begging him and kneeling, saying to him, 'If you are willing, you can cleanse me.'"
Comment:
The historical present ἔρχεται provides narrative vividness, not continuous action.
It makes the scene feel immediate.
"And behold, you will be silent and not able to speak until the day when these things happen,
because you did not believe my words, which will be fulfilled in their time."
Comment:
The aorist indicative ἐπίστευσας shows a completed action—your act of disbelief.
This explains why the consequence is applied now.
"It has been completed (and stands completed)."
Comment:
The perfect tense emphasizes a completed action with present result—it is finished and remains finished.
This is the prototypical example of perfect aspectual nuance.
Hyperliteral translation:John 4:13–14 wrote: πᾶς ὁ πίνων ἐκ τοῦ ὕδατος τούτου διψήσει πάλιν,
ὃς δ’ ἂν πῇ ἐκ τοῦ ὕδατος οὗ ἐγὼ δώσω αὐτῷ, οὐ μὴ διψήσει εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα.
"Everyone who is drinking from this water will thirst again,
but whoever should drink [once] from the water which I will give him will never thirst into the age."
Comment:
The present participle πίνων shows habitual, repeated activity;
the aorist subjunctive πῇ shows a single event.
Hyperliteral translation:1 John 3:6–9 wrote: πᾶς ὁ ἐν αὐτῷ μένων οὐχ ἁμαρτάνει·
πᾶς ὁ ἁμαρτάνων οὐχ ἑώρακεν αὐτὸν οὐδὲ ἔγνωκεν αὐτόν.
πᾶς ὁ γεγεννημένος ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ ἁμαρτίαν οὐ ποιεῖ.
"Everyone who is abiding in him does not sin;
everyone who is sinning has not seen him nor known him.
Everyone who has been begotten from God does not do sin."
Comment:
The present participles (μένων, ἁμαρτάνων) denote characteristic, ongoing practice, not one-off events.
This explains the tension with "if we say we have no sin."
Hyperliteral translation:Mark 1:40 wrote: καὶ ἔρχεται πρὸς αὐτὸν λεπρός παρακαλῶν αὐτὸν καὶ γονυπετῶν λέγων αὐτῷ· Ἐὰν θέλῃς, δύνασαί με καθαρίσαι.
"And comes toward him a leper, begging him and kneeling, saying to him, 'If you are willing, you can cleanse me.'"
Comment:
The historical present ἔρχεται provides narrative vividness, not continuous action.
It makes the scene feel immediate.
Hyperliteral translation:Luke 1:20 wrote: καὶ ἰδοὺ ἔσῃ σιωπῶν καὶ μὴ δυνάμενος λαλῆσαι ἄχρι ἧς ἡμέρας γένηται ταῦτα,
ἀνθ’ ὧν οὐκ ἐπίστευσας τοῖς λόγοις μου,
ἃ πληρωθήσονται εἰς τὸν καιρὸν αὐτῶν.
"And behold, you will be silent and not able to speak until the day when these things happen,
because you did not believe my words, which will be fulfilled in their time."
Comment:
The aorist indicative ἐπίστευσας shows a completed action—your act of disbelief.
This explains why the consequence is applied now.
Hyperliteral translation:John 19:30 wrote: τετέλεσται.
"It has been completed (and stands completed)."
Comment:
The perfect tense emphasizes a completed action with present result—it is finished and remains finished.
This is the prototypical example of perfect aspectual nuance.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
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Re: Hello all forum members
The original post also asked for examples with word choice. Here are some - again, feel free to push back or disagree. Or add new ones!
"place of atonement / propitiatory covering"
Comment:
This word can mean the lid of the ark (the "mercy seat") or an atoning sacrifice.
English cannot capture both senses in a single term.
Translations vary between "propitiation," "expiation," "sacrifice of atonement," or "mercy seat."
"And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us."
Comment:
The verb ἐσκήνωσεν refers to pitching a tent and alludes to the tabernacle (Shekinah).
"dwelt" is correct but loses the imagery of God's temporary dwelling.
"He did not consider equality with God a thing to be grasped/seized/held onto."
Comment:
ἁρπαγμός can mean both "act of seizing" and "something to be exploited."
No single English word captures both the nuance of clinging and exploitation.
"And do not be conformed in outward pattern to this age."
Comment:
The verb implies adopting a superficial outward pattern rather than deep transformation.
English "conform" can suggest deeper change, losing this contrast.
"Blessed are the destitute in spirit."
Comment:
πτωχός refers to abject poverty or begging.
"Poor" in English can be much less extreme.
"the originator and completer of faith"
Comment:
ἀρχηγός can mean pioneer, founder, leader, or initiator.
No single English term fully combines the sense of starting and leading the way.
Hyperliteral translation:Romans 3:25 wrote: ἱλαστήριον
"place of atonement / propitiatory covering"
Comment:
This word can mean the lid of the ark (the "mercy seat") or an atoning sacrifice.
English cannot capture both senses in a single term.
Translations vary between "propitiation," "expiation," "sacrifice of atonement," or "mercy seat."
Hyperliteral translation:John 1:14 wrote: Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν
"And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us."
Comment:
The verb ἐσκήνωσεν refers to pitching a tent and alludes to the tabernacle (Shekinah).
"dwelt" is correct but loses the imagery of God's temporary dwelling.
Hyperliteral translation:Philippians 2:6 wrote: οὐχ ἁρπαγμὸν ἡγήσατο τὸ εἶναι ἴσα θεῷ
"He did not consider equality with God a thing to be grasped/seized/held onto."
Comment:
ἁρπαγμός can mean both "act of seizing" and "something to be exploited."
No single English word captures both the nuance of clinging and exploitation.
Hyperliteral translation:Romans 12:2 wrote: καὶ μὴ συσχηματίζεσθε τῷ αἰῶνι τούτῳ
"And do not be conformed in outward pattern to this age."
Comment:
The verb implies adopting a superficial outward pattern rather than deep transformation.
English "conform" can suggest deeper change, losing this contrast.
Hyperliteral translation:Matthew 5:3 wrote: μακάριοι οἱ πτωχοὶ τῷ πνεύματι
"Blessed are the destitute in spirit."
Comment:
πτωχός refers to abject poverty or begging.
"Poor" in English can be much less extreme.
Hyperliteral translation:Hebrews 12:2 wrote: τὸν τῆς πίστεως ἀρχηγὸν καὶ τελειωτὴν Ἰησοῦν
"the originator and completer of faith"
Comment:
ἀρχηγός can mean pioneer, founder, leader, or initiator.
No single English term fully combines the sense of starting and leading the way.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
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Re: Hello all forum members
Yet I think you miss a lot when you read in English. Particularly the very different writing styles of each author and the "feel" of their prose. And in some instances, it is simply very hard to convey the same thing in English. I agree that translations are good and that comparing translations is a great way to explore possible meanings, but if you can't read Greek, you can't understand why they differ, or when a given translation is off for a particular verse.Jason Hare wrote: ↑July 6th, 2025, 3:44 pm I think that the combination of the available English translations rule out much difference between the meaning of the Greek and the meaning conveyed in English.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/