Philippians 1:15 τινὲς μὲν καὶ / τινὲς δὲ καὶ

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Jonathan Robie
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Philippians 1:15 τινὲς μὲν καὶ / τινὲς δὲ καὶ

Post by Jonathan Robie »

Philippians 1:15-17 wrote:τινὲς μὲν καὶ διὰ φθόνον καὶ ἔριν, τινὲς δὲ καὶ δι’ εὐδοκίαν τὸν Χριστὸν κηρύσσουσιν· οἱ μὲν ἐξ ἀγάπης, εἰδότες ὅτι εἰς ἀπολογίαν τοῦ εὐαγγελίου κεῖμαι, οἱ δὲ ἐξ ἐριθείας τὸν Χριστὸν καταγγέλλουσιν, οὐχ ἁγνῶς, οἰόμενοι θλῖψιν ἐγείρειν τοῖς δεσμοῖς μου.
Two questions here.

1. What is the force of καὶ in the construction τινὲς μὲν καὶ / τινὲς δὲ καὶ?
2. Should I be surprised that the two μὲν clauses do not correspond? τινὲς μὲν καὶ διὰ φθόνον καὶ ἔριν presumably does not describe the same group as οἱ μὲν ἐξ ἀγάπης, and τινὲς δὲ καὶ δι’ εὐδοκίαν presumably does not describe the same group as οἱ δὲ ἐξ ἐριθείας. Why not?
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
David Lim
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Re: Philippians 1:15 τινὲς μὲν καὶ / τινὲς δὲ καὶ

Post by David Lim »

Jonathan Robie wrote:
Philippians 1:15-17 wrote:τινὲς μὲν καὶ διὰ φθόνον καὶ ἔριν, τινὲς δὲ καὶ δι’ εὐδοκίαν τὸν Χριστὸν κηρύσσουσιν· οἱ μὲν ἐξ ἀγάπης, εἰδότες ὅτι εἰς ἀπολογίαν τοῦ εὐαγγελίου κεῖμαι, οἱ δὲ ἐξ ἐριθείας τὸν Χριστὸν καταγγέλλουσιν, οὐχ ἁγνῶς, οἰόμενοι θλῖψιν ἐγείρειν τοῖς δεσμοῖς μου.
Two questions here.

1. What is the force of καὶ in the construction τινὲς μὲν καὶ / τινὲς δὲ καὶ?
2. Should I be surprised that the two μὲν clauses do not correspond? τινὲς μὲν καὶ διὰ φθόνον καὶ ἔριν presumably does not describe the same group as οἱ μὲν ἐξ ἀγάπης, and τινὲς δὲ καὶ δι’ εὐδοκίαν presumably does not describe the same group as οἱ δὲ ἐξ ἐριθείας. Why not?
1. I think "και" is unrelated to "τινες μεν" / "τινες δε". Rather it is modifying "δια φθονον και εριν" / "δι ευδοκιαν" respectively.

2. "τινες μεν ... τινες δε ..." compares two kinds of people. "οι μεν ... οι δε ..." is yet another comparison. I think there is no reason to link the two comparisons syntactically. In this case though, the context does imply: "οι δια φθονον και εριν τον χριστον κηρυσσοντες εξ εριθειας καταγγελλουσιν αλλ οι δι ευδοκιαν κηρυσσοντες εξ αγαπης καταγγελλουσιν".
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Stephen Carlson
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Re: Philippians 1:15 τινὲς μὲν καὶ / τινὲς δὲ καὶ

Post by Stephen Carlson »

Jonathan Robie wrote:
Philippians 1:15-17 wrote:τινὲς μὲν καὶ διὰ φθόνον καὶ ἔριν, τινὲς δὲ καὶ δι’ εὐδοκίαν τὸν Χριστὸν κηρύσσουσιν· οἱ μὲν ἐξ ἀγάπης, εἰδότες ὅτι εἰς ἀπολογίαν τοῦ εὐαγγελίου κεῖμαι, οἱ δὲ ἐξ ἐριθείας τὸν Χριστὸν καταγγέλλουσιν, οὐχ ἁγνῶς, οἰόμενοι θλῖψιν ἐγείρειν τοῖς δεσμοῖς μου.
Two questions here.

1. What is the force of καὶ in the construction τινὲς μὲν καὶ / τινὲς δὲ καὶ?
Looks adverbial to me, probably "also" giving another motive (besides Christ?) for preaching Christ.
Jonathan Robie wrote:2. Should I be surprised that the two μὲν clauses do not correspond? τινὲς μὲν καὶ διὰ φθόνον καὶ ἔριν presumably does not describe the same group as οἱ μὲν ἐξ ἀγάπης, and τινὲς δὲ καὶ δι’ εὐδοκίαν presumably does not describe the same group as οἱ δὲ ἐξ ἐριθείας. Why not?
I think the arrangement is chiastic (inverted parallelism), so the two middle terms go together and the two outside terms go together.
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia
Jonathan Robie
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Re: Philippians 1:15 τινὲς μὲν καὶ / τινὲς δὲ καὶ

Post by Jonathan Robie »

Thanks, David and Stephen, I get it now!
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
David Lim
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Re: Philippians 1:15 τινὲς μὲν καὶ / τινὲς δὲ καὶ

Post by David Lim »

Stephen Carlson wrote:
Jonathan Robie wrote:1. What is the force of καὶ in the construction τινὲς μὲν καὶ / τινὲς δὲ καὶ?
Looks adverbial to me, probably "also" giving another motive (besides Christ?) for preaching Christ.
I am not sure but I think it is more like "not only do they 'proclaim Christ', it is also out of envy and strife", because the text implies that they don't have "proclaiming Christ" as their real motive, so perhaps idiomatically "και" here is best conveyed by "even".
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RandallButh
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Re: Philippians 1:15 τινὲς μὲν καὶ / τινὲς δὲ καὶ

Post by RandallButh »

Στέφανος ἔγραψεν
Jonathan Robie wrote:2. Should I be surprised that the two μὲν clauses do not correspond? τινὲς μὲν καὶ διὰ φθόνον καὶ ἔριν presumably does not describe the same group as οἱ μὲν ἐξ ἀγάπης, and τινὲς δὲ καὶ δι’ εὐδοκίαν presumably does not describe the same group as οἱ δὲ ἐξ ἐριθείας. Why not?


I think the arrangement is chiastic (inverted parallelism), so the two middle terms go together and the two outside terms go together.
There is a substantive textual difference on these clauses. The Byzantine text type reads
Τινὲς μὲν καὶ διὰ φθόνον καὶ ἔριν,
τινὲς δὲ καὶ δι' εὐδοκίαν τὸν χριστὸν κηρύσσουσιν·
οἱ μὲν ἐξ ἐριθείας τὸν χριστὸν καταγγέλουσιν, οὐχ ἁγνῶς, οἰόμενοι θλῖψιν ἐπιφέρειν τοῖς δεσμοῖς μου,
οἱ δὲ ἐξ ἀγάπης εἰδότες ὅτι εἰς ἀπολογίαν τοῦ εὐαγγελίου κεῖμαι.

...
καὶ τί αἰρήσομαι οὐ γνωρίζω
Both readings are good, so in this instance, does one trust the Alexandrians to preserve and not to edit according to their textual abilities, or does one trust the scribes within the mother-tongue Greek world to preserve the better text?

The Alexandrian text produces an inverted structure 'negative-positive-positive-negative', while the Byzantine produces an epexegetical 'negative-positive;negative-positive', similar to 4:12 ἐν παντὶ καὶ ἐν πᾶσιν μεμύημαι, καὶ χορτάζεσθαι καὶ πεινᾶν καὶ περισσεύειν καὶ ὑστερεῖσθαι pos-neg;pos-neg.,
although following an introduction that was neg-pos
οῖδα γὰρ ταπεινοῦσθαι, οῖδα καὶ περισσεύειν·
ἐν παντὶ καὶ ἐν πᾶσιν μεμύημαι, καὶ χορτάζεσθαι καὶ πεινᾶν καὶ περισσεύειν καὶ ὑστερεῖσθαι

καὶ τί αἰρήσομαι οὐ γνωρίζω
ἀλλ' νῦν μανθάνομαι κατὰ τὸ Βυζαντιακὸν κείμενον
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