[B-Greek] philip 3:12b 3rd class conditional?
john umland
johnumland at yahoo.com
Tue Mar 23 21:13:06 EST 2004
now that i'm home thanks for pointing me to BDAG. i
have BAG which is the same as the entry you gave. i am
confused by the New International Greek Testament
Commentary by Peter T. O'Brien who says, "EI KAI
KATALABW (lit. 'if indeed I may loay hold of') is a
similar grammatical construction to EI PWS etc of v.
11, with the EI (which has been repeated and
emphasized by the KAI) introducing a conditional
clause of expectation. As F.F. Bruce observes, it is
almost equivalent to a purpose clause, and may be
paraphrased: '[I still press on] so as to lay hold
of'." (NIGTC 1991, p.424) Are he and Bruce saying the
same thing s Danker or something different? His
translation is "No! I still press on so as to grasp
[it] becasue I was indeed grasped by Christ."
The Word Biblical Commentary 1983 by Gerald Hawthorne
translates "But I keep pressing on to see whether I
might apprehend Christ Jesus, inasmuch as I was indeed
apprehended by him." (p.148) This seems more in line
with what Bauer offers. They do seem different to me.
God is good
John Umland
--- "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
wrote:
> Surprising--but it seems to me that ATR clearly
> enough indicates that this
> isn't REALLY a conditional construction: DIWKW is
> not an apodosis and the
> EI clause really does function to indicate the
> author's reason or intention
> for "pressing on" (DIWKW). I suppose one might say
> that there's a
> suppresssed apodosis and that what's implicit here
> is something like, DIWKW
> DE: EI KAI KATALABW (EKEINO) EF' hWi KATELHFQHN ...,
> SPOUDAZW EKEINO
> KATALABEIN. "If ever I am to get a grip on that for
> which I was myself
> gripped, I am eager to get a grip on it."
>
> At 10:58 AM -0800 3/23/04, john umland wrote:
> >If so be that ei (NT:1487) kai (NT:2532). "I follow
> >after." The condition (third class, ei (NT:1487)
> ...
> >katalaboo (NT:2638), second aorist active
> subjunctive
> >of katalambanoo (NT:2638)) is really a sort of
> purpose
> >clause or aim. There are plenty of examples in the
> >Koine of the use of ei (NT:1487) and the
> subjunctive
> >as here (Robertson, Grammar, p. 1017), "if I also
> may
> >lay hold of that for which ef' (NT:1909) hoo
> >(NT:3739), purpose expressed by epi (NT:1909) I was
> >laid hold of kateleemftheen (NT:2638), first aorist
> >passive of the same verb katalambanoo (NT:2638) by
> >Christ Jesus." His conversion was the beginning,
> not
> >the end of the chase.
> >(from Robertson's Word Pictures in the New
> Testament,
> >Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1997 by
> Biblesoft &
> >Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament.
> >Copyright (c) 1985 by Broadman Press)
> >
> >--- "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu>
> >wrote:
> >> At 7:46 AM -0800 3/23/04, john umland wrote:
> >> >DIWKW DE EI KAI KATALABW EF hW KAI KATELHMFQHN
> hUPO
> >> >CRISTOU
> >> >
> >> >i read that this is a third class conditional
> >> although
> >> >it is not EAN + subjunctive but EI + subj. Can
> >> >KATELHMFQHN be taken as the protasis and
> KATALABW
> >> as
> >> >the apodosis? Robertson and Bruce call this a
> >> purpose
> >> >clause. How so?
> >>
> >> Where did you read that? I don't think that DIWKW
> is
> >> the apodosis of a
> >> conditional construction but rather than the EI +
> >> subjunctive clause here
> >> is an indirect question--and that is what we find
> in
> >> BDAG s.v. EI 5.b.beta:
> >>
> >> "w. subj. DIWKW EI KAI KATALABW I press on (to
> see)
> >> whether I can capture
> >> Phil 3:12 (B-D-F ß368; 375; Rob. 1017)."
> >> --
> >>
> >> Carl W. Conrad
> >> Department of Classics, Washington University
> >> (Emeritus)
> >> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828)
> >> 675-4243
> >> cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
> >> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
> >
> >
> >John Umland
> >
> >=====
> >God is good
> >john p umland
> >
> >__________________________________
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> --
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University
> (Emeritus)
> 1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828)
> 675-4243
> cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
> WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
=====
God is good
john p umland
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